Juniperific
Seedling
I know it's probably because they're rare but is there any other reason like good for making jin/ shari, better foliage..flexible, simply beautiful? I've never seen one and trying to decide where to spend my time and money.
Why are Shimpakus expensive?
- Thread starter Juniperific
- Start date
Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
It's all of that. They're very compliant to bonsai training, very hardy in most of the US, and have great foliage. Once I worked with one, I never wanted to touch a procumbens or San Jose again.
Jason
Chumono
What Brian said... plus they are not pokey. They're expensive because of that whole supply demand thing from econ....I think I remember something like that from school 
I'm sure you already knew that.
I'm sure you already knew that.
Brian Underwood
Chumono
Sometimes the "Shimpakus" you find are simply shimpaku foliage grafted to some ancient collected stock such as california, sierra, western, or rocky mountain juniper. This kind of treatment is a lot of work and incredibly time consuming, but results in a very old tree with very nice foliage, and often a hefty price tag. As far as really nice junipers go, expect to pay a bare minimum of around $400 for good, unworked stock.
Tona
Shohin
Grafting Shimpaku on to old stock is the way to go. I have old San Jose and Prostrata Junipers that have been grafted with Shimpaku whips this year by Roy Nagatoshi. It's only about 30 dollars per graft. In a couple years they will be awesome trees. I also have one done by Peter Macasieb.
Tona
Tona
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Aside from all that grafting crap, the Shimpaku on it's own is worth the investment. However it is also important that you grow cuttings off of the trees you have for your own source of future material.
I notice that your from the Dallas area which I am also. If you do purchase a shimpaku, don't keep it in full sun in this area. I found out the hard way myself. I'm still working on bringing mine back to good health now from two summers ago. It's finally looking good again after a regiment of good fertilization for the past two years after I read that these guys don't like really hot temps sometimes which as you know is what we get here in this region. I decided to put mine in shade after reading the article and saw it beginning to respond really well. The first sign of trouble was thinning of the foliage and areas beginning to yellow and brown out. Good luck should you decide to get one.
bougie nights
Mame
What Brian said... plus they are not pokey. They're expensive because of that whole supply demand thing from econ....I think I remember something like that from school
The graphs...the graphs...AIEEEEEEEE!!!!!!
Sorry, man. Had an Econ flashback.
Tona
Shohin
Hey Vance
As I have said before, I value your articles and posts because you have a wealth of experience. I admit that having an old shimpaku with a nice large trunk would be awesome, but I don't think grafting is a bad thing either. To each his own I guess. Economically though, grafting shimpaku on to large old stock produces a larger tree faster and is less expensive than either growing a shimpaku from cuttings or buying a shimpaku with a large trunk (very expensive).
A quote from one of your articles: "Bonsai on the Cheap" which basically describes a few ways to create trees economically.
"The art of using this material is first recognizing the potential in a clutter of branches etc. second, learning how to develop a new root system, third, that of reducing down both top and roots in an artistic and horticulturally sound manner that will not kill the tree. None of this can be done with little tiny trees."
"None of this can be done with tiny trees"
This is why I have collected junipers (mostly urban yamadori) with large trunks and grafted shimpaku whips onto them. It is the best of both worlds. I get an old gnarly trunk with good nebari and nice shimpaku foliage too. I get to have my cake and eat it too. (Likely having Roy Nagatoshi as my teacher influenced me also lol)My Humble Opinion,
Tona
Bill S
Masterpiece
Ok but with Vances idea you have a nice place to get cheap scions to graft with, whats in your wallet.
To the cost thing, they are slow growing so it is being cared for for much longer, up goes the cost.
art-rodriguez
Mame
october
Masterpiece
This is a link to an incredible prestock juniper. I have seen this tree countless times in person. If you are a member, I think it would be 15% off the price listed. This tree is around shohin size, which makes it a real gem.
If you get material like this, deveolp it and repot it. In just 5 years, this tree could could practically double in price. Also, different parts of the ecountry are more expensive. We are quite high in prices here on the east coast.
Rob
http://www.nebonsai.com/mm5/merchan...duct_Code=29ShimpakuJuniper&Category_Code=BON
If you get material like this, deveolp it and repot it. In just 5 years, this tree could could practically double in price. Also, different parts of the ecountry are more expensive. We are quite high in prices here on the east coast.
Rob
http://www.nebonsai.com/mm5/merchan...duct_Code=29ShimpakuJuniper&Category_Code=BON
Don Blackmond
Omono
a lot of things go into the price. Here are a couple of big factors. The best foliage grows slowly. Some of the best foliage is less common (partly because the characteristics we desire are not what landscapers desire). Challenge of creating a big trunk yet having good foliage close to the trunk (its easy to do with deciduous but not so with shimps).
Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
Wow, every day grateful Brent sold me this one, while not cheap, pound-for-pound a bargain compared to the NEBG one!
This is in a 24" wide mica pot.
Attachments
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
I did not mean to suggest that I think grafting Shimpaku Junipers is bad, regardless of how it sounded. What I did mean to put forward is the fact that Shimpakus are more available in even the nursery trade so as to be marginally more of a choice and option than they used to be. It is when you get into the grafted stock that the price goes through the roof. Labor and time cost money as well as stock. This is why I always recommend striking cuttings from the pruning of all of your Shimpaku stock.
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october
Masterpiece
Hi Brian..Ya, 2 things. Trees do seem more expensive here in this part of the country. Also, the shimp at NEBG is very small. It is only about 9 inches tall with all low branching. If it was to be further styled, you could probably make it shorter. Maybe 8 inches tall with a 3 1/2- 4 inch base. Also, if you are a member, you might get it for about $100 or so less.
Rob
Rob
milehigh_7
Mister 500,000
What is hard to find in the nursery trade is 'Itoigawa'. It's nearly impossible to locate wholesale quantities. Trust me on this.
I'm not sure I would call this "incredible prestock". Don't get me wrong, it's certainly better than most Shimps you'll find in a 5 gallon can....but I would only pay $300 tops for stock like that. A $975 price tag is asking A LOT for very little. To me it looks like it was a large tree with poor nebari (Thick straight surface roots) that will be difficult if not impossible to correct, and was at some point cut back and allowed to grow out.....not my idea of "incredible prestock"...just my honest opinion
Tona
Shohin
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
What would be considered "reasonable" for shimpaku pre-bonsai stock?
