Jins/Shari on deciduous bonsai: opinions or examples?

[Tycoss]

i wanted to start some discussion on this topic, other than to say it simply isn't done. Some broadleaved trees are often shown with deadwood features, but these are usually evergreen species like olives or boxwood. When deadwood is seen on deciduous material it is usually in the form of Uris and other hollows. It seems to me the prohibition against jins and Shari on deciduous trees comes from two basic ideas, one biological, and one artistic.
Firstly, as Japan and most other temperate climates tend to rot wood on deciduous trees quickly, whereas the wood on conifers resists rot a great deal longer. Here on the Canadian prairies however, the cold and drought slow rot on even deciduous trees to the point where deadwood can last for years or even decades.

 

[Tycoss]

The second reason I see has to do with traditional Japanese characterization of different tree genera. Rugged, twisting deadwood features suit the rugged, masculine character of a shimpaku juniper, but not the delicate, feminine character of a maple, zelkova or azalea. However, outside of the Japanese cultural context and using different species, could jins and sharis be appropriate at times? What do you all think?

 

[Tycoss]

Some examples from local poplars and willows:

 

[my nellie]

... ...However, outside of the Japanese cultural context and using different species, could jins and sharis be appropriate at times? What do you all think?

I think they can be appropriate on the condition they are created with subtlety, naturally discoloring without use of any chemicals. Exactly as they appear in nature!
This is my personal opinion and I follow this on my trees.... But what do I know?

 

[BobbyLane]

I think if one wants to replicate whats seen in nature, then deadwood of all types is more than appropriate on deciduous trees. just a matter of blending it in and making it appear as if it was done by nature, convincingly and thats not always easy.

I see many oak trees with jinned/stripped/dead branches...although i think this looks great on oaks, as its one of the more rugged deciduous trees, it might not work on a beech

Oak
IMG_4519 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr
IMG_4520 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr
IMG_8328 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

My own Oak
IMG_4552 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr
2016-12-09_05-28-30 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

Beech with hollow/shari
IMG_4420 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr
IMG_4415 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

beech
IMG_4409 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

sometimes the dead wood on deciduous wood even appears to be weather and bleach, although bleached wood on deciduous bonsai doesnt seem to fit most of the time, but in nature it works, guess it also comes down to understanding where and when to apply deadwood techniques

this is a Beech
IMG_4414 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

My own Beech with deadwood
partial defoliation by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

Oak shari
IMG_8338 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

dead branch on oak with hollows
IMG_9610 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

Hawthorn deadwood
IMG_9844 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

IMG_9846 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

Oak
IMG_4324 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

stripped bark/shari on Beech
IMG_4354 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

Oak deadwood
IMG_4459 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr
IMG_4466 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr
IMG_4495 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

plenty more examples
https://www.flickr.com/photos/138823275@N03/albums/72157683583966405/with/34427652731/

Arthur joura jins a part of a branch on this hornbeam....and for me it works

 

[TN_Jim]

Does anyone have further thoughts on this and best approach(s) to preserving a deciduous jin? @Tycoss, @BobbyLane, where did/do you land on this?

Specifically, I am really curious about burning jin with torch, and cleaning up with brush, etc. Has anyone jinned a deciduous chop site rather than cutting it flush to heal over?

 

[BobbyLane]

Does anyone have further thoughts on this and best approach(s) to preserving a deciduous jin? @Tycoss, @BobbyLane, where did/do you land on this?

Specifically, I am really curious about burning jin with torch, and cleaning up with brush, etc. Has anyone jinned a deciduous chop site rather than cutting it flush to heal over?

if you've done this on a conifer, then the technique is pretty much the same. the next step is for it to look convincing, as if it was done by nature. sometimes that takes time.
my advice would be to look at some wild trees with deadwood features to get a better understanding.
i posted some images above and also a jinned oak branch.

ive jinned a deciduous chop site before and i wasnt convinced. maybe do one and show us how you got on. you learn through trial and error mate.

 

[TN_Jim]

if you've done this on a conifer, then the technique is pretty much the same. the next step is for it to look convincing, as if it was done by nature. sometimes that takes time.
my advice would be to look at some wild trees with deadwood features to get a better understanding.
i posted some images above and also a jinned oak branch.

ive jinned a deciduous chop site before and i wasnt convinced. maybe do one and show us how you got on. you learn through trial and error mate.

Thanks for your thoughts.
Maybe it’s best if I practice on some sample branches cut from wild trees with similar morphology before applying this technique to living material.
I’ll work on this and post what I came up with.

 

[MHBonsai]

Does anyone have further thoughts on this and best approach(s) to preserving a deciduous jin? @Tycoss, @BobbyLane, where did/do you land on this?

Specifically, I am really curious about burning jin with torch, and cleaning up with brush, etc. Has anyone jinned a deciduous chop site rather than cutting it flush to heal over?

Hey Jim - I have a native tree called a buttonbush in development that I carved and burned a hollow. Shooting for a big lightning strike tree image. After a year of weathering I'm hopeful it will grey and blend in more.

 

[TN_Jim]

Hey Jim - I have a native tree called a buttonbush in development that I carved and burned a hollow. Shooting for a big lightning strike tree image. After a year of weathering I'm hopeful it will grey and blend in more.

That is awesome. Did you use a wire brush following firing it? If so, is the goal to just remove the rough ash? Also, how did you determine the appropriate amount of firing -color, time, feel?

In the Arthur Joura video that @BobbyLane posted l, was surprised by how brief the firing treatment appeared...could be editing. Having no experience with this, it seems that less would not exactly be more with regard to long-term preservation of work.
Any thoughts appreciated, thanks

 

[MHBonsai]

I burn hollows totally black with a butane torch. Like...it was fully on fire by the time I was done. In this tree's case, the entire front is deadwood. The live vein runs up the back of the tree so I wasn't worried about damaging the live tissues.

Still, on other living hollows I'll burn pretty aggressively to blacken/preserve. I just think it looks better and more aged to really torch it.

I do use a wire brush by hand afterwards to scrub it back down to hard wood and remove anything that is obviously just ashes. Helps smooth the color and soften the look a little bit.

 

[just.wing.it]

Hey Jim - I have a native tree called a buttonbush in development that I carved and burned a hollow. Shooting for a big lightning strike tree image. After a year of weathering I'm hopeful it will grey and blend in more.

Very cool ?!

 

[zachkent29]

Hey Jim - I have a native tree called a buttonbush in development that I carved and burned a hollow. Shooting for a big lightning strike tree image. After a year of weathering I'm hopeful it will grey and blend in more.

Cool to see a few Nashville people in one thread. @MHBonsai are you a part of the Nashville club?

 

[BobbyLane]

Hey Jim - I have a native tree called a buttonbush in development that I carved and burned a hollow. Shooting for a big lightning strike tree image. After a year of weathering I'm hopeful it will grey and blend in more.

nicely done, i like that

 

[BobbyLane]

That is awesome. Did you use a wire brush following firing it? If so, is the goal to just remove the rough ash? Also, how did you determine the appropriate amount of firing -color, time, feel?

In the Arthur Joura video that @BobbyLane posted l, was surprised by how brief the firing treatment appeared...could be editing. Having no experience with this, it seems that less would not exactly be more with regard to long-term preservation of work.
Any thoughts appreciated, thanks

have the G potter videos passed you by?

 

[just.wing.it]

have the G potter videos passed you by?

They're almost hard to watch now....I re-watched a few recently....man....did they film it with a shoulder mounted VHS direct? Even the copies aren't that great.

My comments are directed only at the visual quality.
I love Graham Potter's work.
He might have something to do with my love for Taxus, as he has made some amazing trees with less than desirable Taxus material.....I'd love to see updates.

Come back to YouTube G. Potter!
We miss you!

 

[BobbyLane]

They're almost hard to watch now....I re-watched a few recently....man....did they film it with a shoulder mounted VHS direct? Even the copies aren't that great.

My comments are directed only at the visual quality.
I love Graham Potter's work.
He might have something to do with my love for Taxus, as he has made some amazing trees with less than desirable Taxus material.....I'd love to see updates.

Come back to YouTube G. Potter!
We miss you!

hello mate. all the 'copy' videos are the same, but most of the audio had to be cut out due to youtube restrictions or something. i know they're not the same without the cool background music

 

[MHBonsai]

Cool to see a few Nashville people in one thread. @MHBonsai are you a part of the Nashville club?

Hey Zach - you bet! I was there last Tues, we talked a bit about your elms last week.

Cheers!

 

[TN_Jim]

have the G potter videos passed you by?

I too recently watched several of Potters videos...his work and delivery are great, & he is certainly not shy about carving. Most is conifers though, but still transferable it seems.

I was wondering what was up with the audio drops in several as well. I was watching in bed with headphones to not disturb the lady of the house and kept thinking my headphones were going out. Beggars can’t be I suppose...videos of this nature are quality resources despite the patina.

@zachkent29, I attended my first NBS meeting at the end of last year. However, I’ve missed the last two due to work and my anniversary -not planning to miss any more. Missing Bjorns demo on my anniversary stung a bit -to my wife’s credit she did volunteer to go

 

[my nellie]

... ...i posted some images above and also a jinned oak branch... ...

Thank you very much for the photos and the link to the album, Bobby. Amazing photos. Thank you!