Bjorn Bjorholm Speaks Out On Hedge Pruning

[MichaelS]

I think the evidence is pretty clear. I mean how would anyone think that these two 'result' are even close to equal. The correct 'Japanese' technique seems to be so clearly superior. I am very surprised that Walter Pall would think he's 'doing it better'. It's definitely an easier and faster approach but the end results speak volumes. I've seen pretty much every tree posted on WPs insta and FB and I personally have never seen anything at this level of detail. This is just my view. When he said whoever has the better trees would prove out the better technique - seems kinda clear, no?

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Yes. There is no comparison and even in another 100 years there will be no comparison. It's the difference between the Western thought process of the need to acquire something as soon as possible, settling for second rate material, ''hedge trimming'',
attention to detail, patience, devotion etc. (of course these traits are also present in Japan but there are no masters of bonsai in the West yet - even though there are many pretenders) There is of course just as much second rate trees in Japan, probably even more.

 

[PABonsai]

I did take night time medicine. Sorry. Maybe tomorrow I will try to see if I know what I was trying to say. But I think if you listen to Bjorn he mentions one going in later to do fine tuning so to speak. Forget his words. Walter Pall has mentioned doing just that. So how is that wrong? It's ones who misunderstand what Walter Pall goes back to do...loses a step in the final image.

Well Bjorn did say that yes hedging would require later individual pruning as well, but he emphasized that it was his belief that keeping up that fine pruning that you have to do after hedging in the long term created more work to get the same results as just doing that fine pruning to begin with. He made it clear that if you like hedging go for it but that it was his belief that long term it won't yield the best results if one is judging by the traditional attributes of the bonsai aesthetic.

I would say at the end of the day logic wins. He mentions that hedging is a technique long used in Japan for different purposes and basically points out that, if hedging was the better method it would be the traditionally practiced method. So there must be a reason that it isn't.

 

[bonsaichile]

Yes. There is no comparison and even in another 100 years there will be no comparison. It's the difference between the Western thought process of the need to acquire something as soon as possible, settling for second rate material, ''hedge trimming'',
attention to detail, patience, devotion etc. (of course these traits are also present in Japan but there are no masters of bonsai in the West yet - even though there are many pretenders) There is of course just as much second rate trees in Japan, probably even more.

It is precisely that attention to detail, patience and devotion for perfection what first attracted me to bonsai. Same reason why I left more modern-style martial arts dojos and sought for the most traditional one I could find, one where I was forced to pay attention to every detail, the exact position of my feet and even fingers when performing kata. To me, bonsai is not only about the trees. Or rather, it is about the necessary training I need to undergo to obtain the best trees I can obtain.

 

[MichaelS]

.

Here’s the thing: with the “Naturalistic” styles, faults are more tolerated. In the Japanese styles, perfection is the goal, therefore faults are minimized to the extent possible.

Well first both sides need to agree on a definition of ''fault''

 

[PABonsai]

Yes. There is no comparison and even in another 100 years there will be no comparison. It's the difference between the Western thought process of the need to acquire something as soon as possible, settling for second rate material, ''hedge trimming'',
attention to detail, patience, devotion etc. (of course these traits are also present in Japan but there are no masters of bonsai in the West yet - even though there are many pretenders) There is of course just as much second rate trees in Japan, probably even more.

How can one argue there are no masters in the West? There are certified and qualified folks who have finished their apprenticeship. They are technically masters whether you think so or not. There is no magic to it. A Bonsai master is no different technically speaking than a master plumber. It's a title and based on education and apprenticeship. It's not some transcendent attribute which only super human bonsai artists can acquire. You sound like Bolero.

 

[MichaelS]

if hedging was the better method it would be the traditionally practiced method. So there must be a reason that it isn't.

Yes and that reason is that hedging produces very rough, uneven branching, unbalanced branching, shoots growing in all kinds of directions, swollen parts, weak parts etc. All these need to be gone over again later and rectified, but you can never really get rid of all of the problems. You don't get elegant branching by hedging.

 

[bonsaichile]

How can one argue there are no masters in the West? There are certified and qualified folks who have finished their apprenticeship. They are technically masters whether you think so or not. There is no magic to it. A Bonsai master is no different technically speaking than a master plumber. It's a title and based on education and apprenticeship. It's not some transcendent attribute which only super human bonsai artists can acquire. You sound like Bolero.

Not quite. There are some professions in which you can be a certified "master" and yet not be recognized as a master by your peers. In my profession, there are some that are indisputably masters. I am not yet one of them, even though I have a Master's degree and a PhD. It is not just about titles or degrees; it is about a body of work.

 

[MichaelS]

How can one argue there are no masters in the West? There are certified and qualified folks who have finished their apprenticeship. They are technically masters whether you think so or not. There is no magic to it. A Bonsai master is no different technically speaking than a master plumber. It's a title and based on education and apprenticeship. It's not some transcendent attribute which only super human bonsai artists can acquire. You sound like Bolero.

I'm not talking about titles.

 

[MichaelS]

It is precisely that attention to detail, patience and devotion for perfection what first attracted me to bonsai. Same reason why I left more modern-style martial arts dojos and sought for the most traditional one I could find, one where I was forced to pay attention to every detail, the exact position of my feet and even fingers when performing kata. To me, bonsai is not only about the trees. Or rather, it is about the necessary training I need to undergo to obtain the best trees I can obtain.

The real mastery comes from knowing when to stop something and just leave it.

 

[Adair M]

Yes. There is no comparison and even in another 100 years there will be no comparison. It's the difference between the Western thought process of the need to acquire something as soon as possible, settling for second rate material, ''hedge trimming'',
attention to detail, patience, devotion etc. (of course these traits are also present in Japan but there are no masters of bonsai in the West yet - even though there are many pretenders) There is of course just as much second rate trees in Japan, probably even more.

Oh, there are “Masters” in the West. What we’re lacking is “Master worthy” trees. Our trees just haven’t been in bonsai training nearly as long as they have in Japan. And that makes a huge difference.

 

[MichaelS]

Oh, there are “Masters” in the West. What we’re lacking is “Master worthy” trees. Our trees just haven’t been in bonsai training nearly as long as they have in Japan. And that makes a huge difference.

There are not many maters in Japan and there are no masters in the WEST (IMO of course)

 

[Mike Hennigan]

That tree has a certain charm to it, don't you think?

I'm going to aim for something like this. Look for it in the National Exhibition in a few years!

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LOL I was just recently debating a friend on the merits of “power lines through a tree style” I think I may actually attempt one some day. And then Bjorn Bjornholm with make a podcast telling me i’m lazy, but i’ll be ok with that.

 

[coh]

LOL I was just recently debating a friend on the merits of “power lines through a tree style” I think I may actually attempt one some day. And then Bjorn Bjornholm with make a podcast telling me i’m lazy, but i’ll be ok with that.

Someone is probably already working on something like that. I picked a rather extreme example, better might be the style where they basically cut a big hole in the center of the tree to clear space for the lines. I could imagine a grouping of maybe 3-5 trees in a row with powerlines through them and a nice sidewalk/road alongside. I bet Bill would love it!

 

[Mike Hennigan]

Someone is probably already working on something like that. I picked a rather extreme example, better might be the style where they basically cut a big hole in the center of the tree to clear space for the lines. I could imagine a grouping of maybe 3-5 trees in a row with powerlines through them and a nice sidewalk/road alongside. I bet Bill would love it!

Yes!!!

 

[Cadillactaste]

Well Bjorn did say that yes hedging would require later individual pruning as well, but he emphasized that it was his belief that keeping up that fine pruning that you have to do after hedging in the long term created more work to get the same results as just doing that fine pruning to begin with.

So...that's my point. Neither way is wrong. It's just personal preference. When he said that. Was an ah-ha moment for me.

I honestly don't care what method anyone chooses.

 

[coh]

Here's the issue for me. There have been people saying "hedge pruning is the best (or fastest) way to develop deciduous material". This is another one of those cases where someone is speaking in absolute terms. I suspect that if it was really the best way it would be widely used in Japan, but it is not. So where does that leave us? My interpretation of everything I've seen is that the hedging method is a growing season time saver. If you have a lot of trees and don't have the time to keep up with all the work during the growing season, then the hedge pruning method is a way to deal with that. Instead of spending time during the growing season cutting back branches individually, you just shear the trees to an outline and then come back and spend the time at the end of the season when there is less to do.

Think about it...in Japan most bonsai masters have apprentices whose sole job is to look after the trees, they work all day almost every day on that. So they have time to do pruning of individual trees as needed. Then take Walter Pall, since he is the main promoter of the method that I know of. He has a massive garden but no apprentices. So hedging allows him to maximize his time while still yielding good results.

The question for me is this: If I have a relatively small number of trees in my yard and have the time to attend to their pruning needs during the growing season, is there any reason to choose the hedging method? The evidence I've seen doesn't suggest that it's any better or faster in terms of developing trees, just that it allows one to change how they spend their time during the year.

In the end, my conclusion is there's nothing wrong per se with hedging, but there's also no compelling reason to do it other than time management. FWIW.

 

[Adair M]

Here's the issue for me. There have been people saying "hedge pruning is the best (or fastest) way to develop deciduous material". This is another one of those cases where someone is speaking in absolute terms. I suspect that if it was really the best way it would be widely used in Japan, but it is not. So where does that leave us? My interpretation of everything I've seen is that the hedging method is a growing season time saver. If you have a lot of trees and don't have the time to keep up with all the work during the growing season, then the hedge pruning method is a way to deal with that. Instead of spending time during the growing season cutting back branches individually, you just shear the trees to an outline and then come back and spend the time at the end of the season when there is less to do.

Think about it...in Japan most bonsai masters have apprentices whose sole job is to look after the trees, they work all day almost every day on that. So they have time to do pruning of individual trees as needed. Then take Walter Pall, since he is the main promoter of the method that I know of. He has a massive garden but no apprentices. So hedging allows him to maximize his time while still yielding good results.

The question for me is this: If I have a relatively small number of trees in my yard and have the time to attend to their pruning needs during the growing season, is there any reason to choose the hedging method? The evidence I've seen doesn't suggest that it's any better or faster in terms of developing trees, just that it allows one to change how they spend their time during the year.

In the end, my conclusion is there's nothing wrong per se with hedging, but there's also no compelling reason to do it other than time management. FWIW.

With Japanese Maples, if you remove the central growing shoot right when the buds open, you’ll get two new shoots starting in a week or so, and you’ll get extremely short internodes. Do this repeatedly over the Spring, you’ll develop amazing ramification and short internodes. If you hedge, and let the shoots grow out before you hedge them back, you’ll get long, straight internodes. And less taper.

 

[Adair M]

There are not many maters in Japan and there are no masters in the WEST (IMO of course)

What would you call a guy who styled a tree that wins a Kokufu prize? How about a guy who has styled a tree that wins the Prime Minister Award?

These guys have styled trees that have won the top honors in the top shows in Japan. If that’s not “Master” worthy, nothing is. (IMO of course)

 

[coh]

With Japanese Maples, if you remove the central growing shoot right when the buds open, you’ll get two new shoots starting in a week or so, and you’ll get extremely short internodes. Do this repeatedly over the Spring, you’ll develop amazing ramification and short internodes. If you hedge, and let the shoots grow out before you hedge them back, you’ll get long, straight internodes. And less taper.

And that's a rather time consuming technique, right? So there you go.

BTW, I don't have any JM at the stage where I've had to use that technique. However, I've read/been told that when you pinch out those new shoots right at the start of the growing season, you will not get new shoots to grow that year, but you will stop the elongation of the shoot resulting in very short internodes. Are you saying that is not the case? That you will get new shoot growth the same season?

 

[Vance Wood]

Well Bjorn did say that yes hedging would require later individual pruning as well, but he emphasized that it was his belief that keeping up that fine pruning that you have to do after hedging in the long term created more work to get the same results as just doing that fine pruning to begin with. He made it clear that if you like hedging go for it but that it was his belief that long term it won't yield the best results if one is judging by the traditional attributes of the bonsai aesthetic.

I would say at the end of the day logic wins. He mentions that hedging is a technique long used in Japan for different purposes and basically points out that, if hedging was the better method it would be the traditionally practiced method. So there must be a reason that it isn't.

Well I have avoided this discussion quite a while but sometimes you have to say something in the face of the obvious or go crazy from not doing so. Can anyone look at Walter's trees and say there is something wrong with how he does them, and you could ask the same of Bojorn's trees, what's wrong with them? Once more I am reminded of the pinching vs. cliping argument concerning the treatment of Junipers where you can be brutally judged by your piers for pinching the growing tips on your Junipers and relegated to second rate bonsaiists for doing so.