Bjorn Bjorholm Speaks Out On Hedge Pruning

[Adair M]

And that's a rather time consuming technique, right? So there you go.

BTW, I don't have any JM at the stage where I've had to use that technique. However, I've read/been told that when you pinch out those new shoots right at the start of the growing season, you will not get new shoots to grow that year, but you will stop the elongation of the shoot resulting in very short internodes. Are you saying that is not the case? That you will get new shoot growth the same season?

It depends on the cultivar of Japanese Maple. Regular seedlings, you will get new shoots.

I did with the forest Japanese Maple I bought from Bill V last year. I had to pinch that thing every day for three or four weeks in the spring!

Yes, it is a time consuming technique.

 

[M. Frary]

So you like the city trees that have been “topped”, and the branches cut back hard with a chain saw. Then new sprouts grow out.

Gotcha...

That tree has never had a saw taken to it.
It's been broken off once but no saw work.
I know what a city tree looks like after that.

That tree has a certain charm to it, don't you think?

I'm going to aim for something like this. Look for it in the National Exhibition in a few years!

View attachment 275170

Now this one?
I've made hundred just like it and have done worse to them.

 

[M. Frary]

cut a big hole in the center of the tree to clear space for the lines.

We call it gutting them.

 

[M. Frary]

you can be brutally judged by your piers for pinching the growing tips on your Junipers and relegated to second rate bonsaiists for doing so.

Hey!
That's me.
I like my second rate status.
There's too much pressure being first rate.

 

[Adair M]

That tree has never had a saw taken to it.
It's been broken off once but no saw work.
I know what a city tree looks like after that.

Now this one?
I've made hundred just like it and have done worse to them.

Mike, I’ve marked the places that look like it’s been sawed.



But, you are far more expert than me.

 

[M. Frary]

Mike, I’ve marked the places that look like it’s been sawed.

View attachment 275186

But, you are far more expert than me.

Sorry.
You're right.
But that wasn't done by a line clearance crew.
That's the reason for my reply.
No powerlines.
It looks to have been done on the one side by city road crews because it was hanging put in the street.
I was only seeing the broken stub.
That is one crappy tree.
The merciful thing to do would be to remove it entirely for the eyesore that it is.

 

[leatherback]

The merciful thing to do would be to remove it entirely for the eyesore that it is.

NEar my work a whole street of trees had problems. All branches were cut back to a few feet some 10 years ago, and then let grow. Now you cans till in the winter canopies see that they were cut once. But they look pretty decent again. As these are 50-60-70 year old oaks, I think the decision to not just remove them was a good one. Not sure what I am trying to say. Lol

 

[M. Frary]

NEar my work a whole street of trees had problems. All branches were cut back to a few feet some 10 years ago, and then let grow. Now you cans till in the winter canopies see that they were cut once. But they look pretty decent again. As these are 50-60-70 year old oaks, I think the decision to not just remove them was a good one. Not sure what I am trying to say. Lol

Sounds like they were pollard.
It's a cut back along a primary branch or even sub trunk to a bare stub.
It's mostly done to fast growing trees like willow but have seen it done to others like maples.
It looks horrible for years until the tree grows new branches.
It might help this tree too but if it were healthy it would have thrown a branch out somewhere after the limbs were cut off.

 

[Dav4]

LOL I was just recently debating a friend on the merits of “power lines through a tree style” I think I may actually attempt one some day. And then Bjorn Bjornholm with make a podcast telling me i’m lazy, but i’ll be ok with that.

Someone is probably already working on something like that. I picked a rather extreme example, better might be the style where they basically cut a big hole in the center of the tree to clear space for the lines. I could imagine a grouping of maybe 3-5 trees in a row with powerlines through them and a nice sidewalk/road alongside. I bet Bill would love it!

John Geanangel has actually developed a landscape planting with power lines running through the canopy of a maple, I believe...

 

[Hartinez]

Someone is probably already working on something like that. I picked a rather extreme example, better might be the style where they basically cut a big hole in the center of the tree to clear space for the lines. I could imagine a grouping of maybe 3-5 trees in a row with powerlines through them and a nice sidewalk/road alongside. I bet Bill would love it!

One of the reasons I’ve always enjoyed John Geanangels bonsai is his willingness to do what ever the hell pleases him. He’s all over this power line through tree style! Here’s a shot from his Facebook photos. Wish he was still on BNUT.

 

[Hartinez]

John Geanangel has actually developed a landscape planting with power lines running through the canopy of a maple, I believe...
View attachment 275203

didn’t even see your post Dave before posting the same pic. Johns early YouTube videos were some of my biggest inspiaration in the art. Always loved his demeanor. He seems to make bonsai that make him happy, first and foremost.

 

[Cadillactaste]

I appreciate the Japanese style. The talent that goes into it. Though they remind me of a well manicured lady with stiff hair.

I think it has to do with living rural...vacations doing hiking trails. I prefer trees like @grouper52 has. They seem to breathe survivalist of the best against the wild. I can't say I know what methods he uses. I can say... I can appreciate both. Love Walter Pall's trees and can admire them. He mentions taking time later which Bjorn even talks about needs done. I don't think then Mr. Pall's method is wrong. But ones don't understand his entire process. He's mentioned it in detail and sounds like what Bjorn even agreed to for proper finish. Is going back in later to deal with things. Mr Pall has mentioned he does that too. So...I think it's ones on the wall like a fly who don't understand.

Let's see if I can make heads or tails from this. I stated later my thoughts on Bjorn when it was brought out that he admitted that same thing can be accomplished but felt it more work from the technique Walter Pall uses. That's where I was done listening. That statement had me wonder why it was even up for discussion. People just choose to nitpick. Choose which appeals to you and do it. I don't understand why the need for saying there is only one way to skin a cat.

I do feel some may not understand that second part of hedge pruning and get a less desired look. But that falls at the feet of anyone practicing bonsai and are amateur.

Japanese don't like scars and such. The perfect tree they are after. That does take attention to details.

But I'm an Ohioan...I love the character I find on trails that show a tree has weathered storms. Those scars...appeal to me. I think that's why I am more into a tree that shows scars... not that I don't admire ones with out. I can and do admire them.

We recently switched to a smart TV. I'm not a huge TV Buff. My husband would love to switch the upstairs TV out for the smart TV. So he went to YouTube and put in Bonsai. Showed trees from Bjorn Worth $$$ . Amazing...well manicured pads. Absolutely stunning. Then we switched to Bonsai Empire...and then Walter Pall. The depth of carvings and such on deciduous trees and the powerful statements of trees that weathered the storm and survived. That makes my heart beat faster. That's just me. But what I LOVE about this hobby is there are so many styles that reach an audience of people...who can choose what they love. If one adores a well manicured poodle we don't chastise them...over say my home of English bulldogs. I also have an Aussie dog. She's GORGEOUS. Not one chastises me for my love of both breeds. So what I can't grasp is why one technique is wrong ...when Bjorn states (it can be achieved). More time...he goes to mention landscape in Japan. I'm sure no one goes back to those in the landscape and does the second step.

I mentioned grouper/Will. Because his trees speak of hardships. And they breathe life into ones who look at them. Naturalist style. If a tree can make one sit back and see something.

So where one can pick apart ones technique. Why does it have to be so opinionated?

Nature as a whole isn't perfect...those flaws in nature I sure don't plan on confronting God over when I meet him. Those very flaws...are $$$ in yamadori, even overlooked.

 

[PABonsai]

Oh, there are “Masters” in the West. What we’re lacking is “Master worthy” trees. Our trees just haven’t been in bonsai training nearly as long as they have in Japan. And that makes a huge difference.

In Japan they have trees older than many of our nations in the west. Crazy when you put it in that context.

 

[PABonsai]

Well I have avoided this discussion quite a while but sometimes you have to say something in the face of the obvious or go crazy from not doing so. Can anyone look at Walter's trees and say there is something wrong with how he does them, and you could ask the same of Bojorn's trees, what's wrong with them? Once more I am reminded of the pinching vs. cliping argument concerning the treatment of Junipers where you can be brutally judged by your piers for pinching the growing tips on your Junipers and relegated to second rate bonsaiists for doing so.

Very poignant Vance. And I am in no way judging anyone or their techniques. I am simply pointing out that there is a very obvious logic to what Bjorn points out. Both hedging and the pinching vs pruning arguments seem to be a western debate. I have never been to Japan but I would bet there is no debate about it in Japan. As a new person I see lots of arguments by us westerners about technique, but it *appears to* always stem from wanting to differ from Japan's techniques. When tradition is in play there seems to be far less argument about how to make a tree. I certainly don't think Walter Pall is second rate anything. I will never be as good as him.

 

[coh]

Let's see if I can make heads or tails from this. I stated later my thoughts on Bjorn when it was brought out that he admitted that same thing can be accomplished but felt it more work from the technique Walter Pall uses. That's where I was done listening. That statement had me wonder why it was even up for discussion. People just choose to nitpick. Choose which appeals to you and do it. I don't understand why the need for saying there is only one way to skin a cat.

You know where a lot of the trouble comes from, right? It's when people speak in absolutes. Go back to when this all blew up a few months ago - someone posted a home made video supposedly explaining how hedge pruning is done and how great it is. It was a terrible video and Walter had to come in to explain what the guy was explaining, but that's not even the point. The guy had titled his post/video "The FASTEST way to develop deciduous bonsai..." (emphasis mine). There's no proof that it is faster or best in any way. It's just ANOTHER way to do things. But when you come on and claim something is best or fastest or whatever, you're going to get called out on it, especially if it is not common practice.

I don't know if the guy titled it that way specifically to draw attention but that's the way things work, especially on the internet.

Just view it for what it is - another way to deal with deciduous trees that probably yields similar results in about the same amount of time, but allows one to shift some labor from the growing season to the fall. User preference.

That said, I've never seen Walter's trees in person nor have I been to Japan, so I can't compare fine details between the two methods. The standard approach may yield results that are more in line with Japanese aesthetics when it comes to deciduous trees. Again, though, that would be a user preference.

 

[Animron]

The thing is ... I don't really enjoy hedge pruning technique, i've found it boring and unsatisfying. But i do enjoy pruning each single branch, branch by branch, slowly making a decision where to make a cut. I don't really care if i spend 10 x more time as long as i stay fulfilled and "connected" with a tree.
For me it's not that important which technique provides better and faster results (i have no clue about that ) but what gives me more joy, and classic Japanese and any other non hedge pruning technique wins by far.

 

[sorce]

We celebrate having the most useless shit first.

While the Japanese don't mind having the most useful information second.

Sorce

 

[Mike Hennigan]

I want to get some t-shirts made up that just say “Bonsai: You’re doing it wrong!”

 

[coh]

I want to get some t-shirts made up that just say “Bonsai: You’re doing it wrong!”

That could be a big seller! Maybe with a picture of someone trimming a tree with hedge pruners, hmmm....

 

[sorce]

I want to get some t-shirts made up that just say “Bonsai: You’re doing it wrong!”

There's no right way, to trim a Bonsai.

Sorce