BonsaiNaga13
Chumono
Been trying to find Japanese maples to collect seeds from, so far found a red with maybe 2 viable seeds and a green with a handful that I collected
2019 From seed
- Thread starter BonsaiNaga13
- Start date
-
- Tags
- bonsai from seed
I have a ton of Chamaecyparis Obtusa seeds I ordered last year, received too late to plant. Going to see what comes out of those...
Other than that, I'll have to see what my SO will let me get away with. I'm running very short of space on my benches, especially considering I have upwards of 100 seedlings that survived the summer :s
Other than that, I'll have to see what my SO will let me get away with. I'm running very short of space on my benches, especially considering I have upwards of 100 seedlings that survived the summer :s
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
- Messages
- 11,341
- Reaction score
- 23,294
- USDA Zone
- 5b
The positive trait of American persimmon over the princess persimmon is the rough near black, alligator checked bark that starts early and can get fairly deep. They grow quick, fruiting first time at 8 to 10 years, they are not real large trees, a 50 year old tree will still be only 8 inches in diameter.
Leaves reduce well after some ramification. So the larger leaf size won't be a problem in a tree that has more than 2 levels of branching.
Downside of American over Princess persimmon is that the fruit is one to two inches in diameter. (2.5 cm to 5 cm) This is much larger than princess persimmon. Fruit is also relatively sparse, which in some ways makes the larger size more acceptable. When fruit is fully ripe it is very tasty, like an exoticly spiced date. More flavor than Kaki persimmon.
Separate sexes, a tree is male or female. If male, enjoy it for its slightly fragrant white flowers, if female you might need a male to get fruit. Once in a while a female tree may make seedless fruit if no male is present, but this is the exception, not the rule.
first summer seedlings, American Persimmon
4th summer seedlings
Bark of 8 year old from seed
Bark of 40+ year old full size tree (my seed source) & one fruit
sunset shoot for the hell of it, same 40+ year old tree, note fruit still hanging here and there in tree after leaf fall, sparse but still hanging after 3 weeks of nightly frosts and freezes. 3 trunk clump, since all 3 trunks fruit and are fused at base I think this is a single clone, with a triple trunk.
TN_Jim
Omono
I love these trees in the wild. It is one that once you get to know their mature blocky bark, it is pretty distinguishable.
I didn’t know they made good, thanks Leo & all for bringing this species to the surface. Search.
Noticed this weekend that tiny leafed Zelkovas in some local shopping center parking lots are coming into maturity...interested in these easy collections, gotta do some homework strat/germ-wise.
BonsaiNaga13
Chumono
The source of my seeds was a really old tree, I'll get pics next time I'm by there but the winter silhouette is beautiful. I had to have collected around 100 seeds at least only had room for 2 plants though, didn't expect too many to sprout but I was overwhelmed. I heard some American persimmon can be both Male and female. At this park this tree is the only persimmon. The trunk is like 5 of me and there's a completely healed scar the size of my torso.
the parent tree last winterAmerican persimmon is really the only persimmon I'm familiar with taste wise, they're all round here just nowhere I could collect so I went the seed rout. Any experience with root pruning? One thread I read said prince in autumn and another said in spring.
cmeg1
Imperial Masterpiece
Treehelp.com seems good.I got JBP seeds in the past that grew.And have some in the fridge getting planted in a couple weeks( early start under grow lights hopefully).
I like how Treehelp describes their seed as being high quality hand selected and able to be stored for a year.....that tells me they are responsibly replenishing their seed lots......!
I will get Zelkova seed and start indoors early also to be hopefully a couple feet tall by Spring 2019!
I like how Treehelp describes their seed as being high quality hand selected and able to be stored for a year.....that tells me they are responsibly replenishing their seed lots......!
I will get Zelkova seed and start indoors early also to be hopefully a couple feet tall by Spring 2019!
TN_Jim
Omono
That silhouette is on point..wish I saw more bonsai that did that
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
- Messages
- 11,341
- Reaction score
- 23,294
- USDA Zone
- 5b
@BonsaiNaga13
I have found American persimmons don't like roots being messed with. Or rather they respond pretty normal, growing new roots reasonably well right after repotting, except in spring maybe half the seedlings get a catastrophic fungal root root that quickly kills them dead. The other half do great. Go figure.
Late summer, early autumn repotting seems better, trees thrive just fine, but maybe 10% of the seedlings crash & root rot away for no apparent reason. I think autumn is a much better time for repotting. I'm trying later in autumn this year to see if I get even better survival. I think there is a pathogen that is active mainly in warm weather that is deadly to persimmon roots.
Judging by the Japanese recommending autumn repotting they have trouble with it too. Given the great age of some Japanese persimmon bonsai, it is likely some clones are resistant to the disease, by the time the persimmons have been repotted 10 times all the susceptible clones have died.
But this is speculation about cause on my part, all I know for certain is autumn seems better than spring for American persimmon
I have found American persimmons don't like roots being messed with. Or rather they respond pretty normal, growing new roots reasonably well right after repotting, except in spring maybe half the seedlings get a catastrophic fungal root root that quickly kills them dead. The other half do great. Go figure.
Late summer, early autumn repotting seems better, trees thrive just fine, but maybe 10% of the seedlings crash & root rot away for no apparent reason. I think autumn is a much better time for repotting. I'm trying later in autumn this year to see if I get even better survival. I think there is a pathogen that is active mainly in warm weather that is deadly to persimmon roots.
Judging by the Japanese recommending autumn repotting they have trouble with it too. Given the great age of some Japanese persimmon bonsai, it is likely some clones are resistant to the disease, by the time the persimmons have been repotted 10 times all the susceptible clones have died.
But this is speculation about cause on my part, all I know for certain is autumn seems better than spring for American persimmon
GGB
Masterpiece
missed a chanced to dig up a 6/7 year old persimmon in NC this summer, now i'm regreting it.
Paul F.
Shohin
I have so many seeds in the ground or some that just popped up recently.
1) Huangshan pines - 2 inches tall now. I love these
2) 50 new Bald Cypress in the pot - i have 5 seedlings about 12 inches tall right now.
3) Crape Myrtle- 4 just popped up
4) Pomegranate - 2 finally popped up.
5) Sweet acacias - 4 new one month olds. I have many others.
6) Lignum Vitae - all in the dirt - One just popped up. So stoked because they are hard to germinate.
7) Brazilian Ironwood (leopard trees) -Two seedlings about 4 inches tail now
8) Key Lime tree seeds - In the dirt.
9) Chinese Elms seeds - in the fridge (Only two germinated from when I planted them in the spring - about 6 inches long now. I figured Id try putting the seeds in the fridge and see if I can get more to germinate even though people say they dont need stratification. I couldn't get them to go)
10) One billion Japanese black pines
11) Aleppo Pines - not doing too good. I only have a few left.
12) Bristlecone Pines. Just a few good ones left as well.
13) Siberian Elms - couldn't get those to germinate so I'm trying fridge time.
1) Huangshan pines - 2 inches tall now. I love these
2) 50 new Bald Cypress in the pot - i have 5 seedlings about 12 inches tall right now.
3) Crape Myrtle- 4 just popped up
4) Pomegranate - 2 finally popped up.
5) Sweet acacias - 4 new one month olds. I have many others.
6) Lignum Vitae - all in the dirt - One just popped up. So stoked because they are hard to germinate.
7) Brazilian Ironwood (leopard trees) -Two seedlings about 4 inches tail now
8) Key Lime tree seeds - In the dirt.
9) Chinese Elms seeds - in the fridge (Only two germinated from when I planted them in the spring - about 6 inches long now. I figured Id try putting the seeds in the fridge and see if I can get more to germinate even though people say they dont need stratification. I couldn't get them to go)
10) One billion Japanese black pines
11) Aleppo Pines - not doing too good. I only have a few left.
12) Bristlecone Pines. Just a few good ones left as well.
13) Siberian Elms - couldn't get those to germinate so I'm trying fridge time.
BonsaiNaga13
Chumono
I got 7 ranging from 2 to 4 inches. They're already budding low on the trunk and I think I'm gonna go with a mountain forest planting
Paul F.
Shohin
Can you take a pic? I wanna see what they look like in the future.. lol
BonsaiNaga13
Chumono
I want to start some more next year early spring and see if top pruning helps back bud, I've seen plenty buds swell but only a few push
Paul F.
Shohin
I haven't topped any of my JBP because I was a bit scared to and I only have a few which are big enough to do it. I really didnt know you could top prune pines. This is the first year that Im growing them. I dont know much of anything. LOL. Im definitely going to snip some for sure.
Here are my Huangshan Pines, still little guys. Yours look awesome!
Here are my Huangshan Pines, still little guys. Yours look awesome!
BonsaiNaga13
Chumono
I haven't done anything with my jbp except fertalize. I started them in April, my huangshan I started in may I think and they have significantly different growth patterns, my huangshan are huge in comparison so my jbp. I haven't top pruning any yet but I want to try with first years eventually just cuz how fast they grow and some pines don't back bud on old wood. I just measured and my tallest jbp are 2 or 3 inches but my tallest huangshan are 8 inches
Paul F.
Shohin
My Huangshan pines are huge compared to JBP's at the same age. I got so many JBPs (literally a billion) but only 8 Huangshan pines. I'm definitely going to experiment with topping on the JBP.. Whats the worst that cant happen?
Also, did you cold stratify your huangshan's? I did the first time. I have more seeds but Im not sure I want to wait the 60 days. I'm wondering if I can just put them in the dirt without fridge time.
BonsaiNaga13
Chumono
I gave em 2 weeks to a month cold strat and majority sprouted roots but the majority got eaten by critters. My strat philosophy is put em in a few weeks an take em out if u get anxious to see if something sprouts, if not then back in the fridge. winter has some warm days. My jbp aren't even really big enough to think about pruning but I've seen some huge in comparison, I'm just gonna let my jbp run for a while after root work next spring. I'm just experimenting.
BonsaiNaga13
Chumono
I'm getting really anxious with my some of my Japanese maples so I got a batch Im gunna try an sprout after a week strat. I think they're red but I'll see later
Paul F.
Shohin
You think they'll germinate after a week in the fridge? That would be awesome. I had to wait the 3 months for may Japanese maples. Cold strat is the worst! lol!
BonsaiNaga13
Chumono
possibly, I had some crab apple sprout after a week but only 5 out of a bunch so maybe. If not I got a plenty backups. It's a test to see what I can get away with.
