2021 Challenge?

[ShadyStump]

This seems too restrictive. I don't see why it couldn't be "Anytime between Jan 1 and Dec 31 2021..." If I want to pick a tree *later* than everyone else who started right away, that's not an advantage to me... and more importantly, this gives everyone a *full year* to collect native material and pick a submission.

In the northern hemisphere, I'm not going out to collect something from around my home between now and January 1, 2021 (absolute wrong time of year), which would limit me to nursery stock (really not many natives there, sadly, especially almost none in fall/winter) or seeds (giant disadvantage in a 5-year contest).

Otherwise, I like the idea of requiring a pot to be made by the submitter, from native materials. No purchased pots. Use a hollow log, or sticks, or gather clay and make a more traditional pot, or find a slate slab, or....... etc. This would add a real challenge and allow for a ton of creativity without extra rules.

I took this to mean, "announce your intent to participate," by January 1st. Your first few posts in your thread would be your thoughts on where to start, then select the trees you intend to direct toward the challenge, eventually over the course of the 5 years selecting just one for judging.

 

[zanduh]

I took this to mean, "announce your intent to participate," by January 1st. Your first few posts in your thread would be your thoughts on where to start, then select the trees you intend to direct toward the challenge, eventually over the course of the 5 years selecting just one for judging.

This is how I intended it. Sign up by Jan 1st. Once you have your tree to start then start your thread.

I’ll write a more clear version of the rules soon.

 

[Kanorin]

The intent to participate deadline seems silly and arbitrary. If someone is 4 months late to the party they are pretty much only hurting their own chances.

otherwise, I dig this competition.

 

[Forsoothe!]

May I contribute to the complexity some small token of contrariness? The birds plant (so to speak) Mulberries in my yard and I harvest them, eventually, like this monster clump of 9 individuals...

These are most likely hybrid of the native and the Oriental weeping variety as evidenced by the deeply cut leaf. Do they qualify as "native"? They would be under our American Constitution (child of one parent who was a citizen, born on USA soil). Also, I made pots out of concrete a few years back and have some that have never been used. May I use one of these?

Anything to help...

 

[zanduh]

May I contribute to the complexity some small token of contrariness? The birds plant (so to speak) Mulberries in my yard and I harvest them, eventually, like this monster clump of 9 individuals...
View attachment 329383
These are most likely hybrid of the native and the Oriental weeping variety as evidenced by the deeply cut leaf. Do they qualify as "native"? They would be under our American Constitution (child of one parent who was a citizen, born on USA soil). Also, I made pots out of concrete a few years back and have some that have never been used. May I use one of these?
View attachment 329384
Anything to help...

Definitely can use the pots!

I didn't consider hybrids that have native parents. Since the mulberry is native to Michigan and yours is a hybrid of that I would say it qualifies!

 

[Forsoothe!]

How about this: I have an Amur Maple that gives me babies all over the place and Michigan gets cold as Hell just like Russian-Outer Mongolia border...

 

[zanduh]

Preliminary Idea V.2

Title Five Year "Native Tree, Native Pot" Challenge:

Timeframe: Jan 1 2021 - Dec 31 2025 (5 Years)

Entry and Postings:
1) You must submit to the thread that you are participating in the challenge. You must also start a thread labeled "(5yr Native Tree Challenge) USERNAME's SPECIES" with the tree(s) you plan to work within the challenge.
2) Late entries are accepted but will not be given additional time.
3) Only one planting can be submitted as your final display at the end of the challenge. Other trees that you finish will be considered Honorable Mentions.
4) You must document progress with photos at least yearly. It is highly recommended that you document any major updates (because it's fun to watch).

Native Tree Rules:
1) The tree species you choose MUST be native to your country and within 200 miles of where you live at the time of submission. (Example: someone from New York cannot choose a Coastal Redwood)
2) If you move after the submission you will not be required to start a new tree.
3) Non-native trees, the offspring of your non-native trees, and invasive species to your region are not allowed.
4) Hybrids from a native tree are allowed.
5) Cultivars of Non-Native species that were discovered in your country's nurseries are not allowed.
3) Starting trees do not have an age limit but they must be raw material and untrained.
5) There is no requirement for bonsai size or style.
6) Clump and Forest plantings are allowed.
7) Bonchi is allowed, if native.

Native Pot Rules:
1) Finishing the challenge requires potting the bonsai in a pot/container from your country.
2) You are allowed to make your own pot if you are creatively inclined but this is not required!
3) A "pot" in this challenge refers to a container for your bonsai.
4) This container does not have to be a traditional bonsai pot shape but should artfully display your bonsai.
5) Completely natural containers (Rock slabs, Woods) can be used if they are sourced locally.
6) Natural containers and containers created by the user must show significant effort and alteration from the base materials

 

[Forsoothe!]

What is Bonchi ?

 

[zanduh]

What is Bonchi ?

Chili plants with bonsai practices applied

 

[Kadebe]

Preliminary Idea

Title Five Year "Native Tree, Native Pot" Challenge:

Timeframe: Jan 1 2021 - Dec 31 2025 (5 Years)

Rules:
1) By Jan 1 2021 you must submit to the thread that you are participating in the challenge.

Well, I'm in for the challenge

 

[ShadyStump]

Chili plants with bonsai practices applied

We'll then, that italian cherry we tried out in a Topsy Turvy this year just won't do. Guess I'll just have to plant one of our Pueblo Hellfires. How sad... NOT.

 

[LittleDingus]

Native Tree Rules:
1) The tree species you choose MUST be native to your country and within 200 miles of where you live at the time of submission. (Example: someone from New York cannot choose a Coastal Redwood)

I was thinking through what sorts of "native" species I might give a go for this. It turns out many species that I thought were "native" here because of how ubiquitous they are in the wild (not landscape) aren't truly native here!

I started by going to https://mdc.mo.gov/trees-plants/tree-seedlings which encourages us to "Use native trees and shrubs to improve wildlife habitat and soil and water conservation on your land." But even many of the trees listed there aren't "native" with a little research.

Osage orange is for sale there, for example. It is very common to find in overrun pastures, and lightly wooded areas near where I live. I've always thought of it as a Missouri native. But, according to

https://www.fs.fed.us/database/feis...TION : Osage-orange is,Red River drainage [4].

it's natural range does not include Missouri

Other trees like bald cypress do extend their native range to Missouri but only to the far south eastern tip of the state. That's about 350 miles from me. Meanwhile, there are so many bald cypress around here it's rediculous.

I think a lot of people in the US are going to have this problem. A lot of what we find in the woods just outside our door is not truly "native" to the area. Westward expansion brought many trees with it that are "native now" but weren't "native then".

Is there a source we should use for what is "native"? I'd like to keep to the spirit of the rules but am finding that a number of my more interesting candidates that I always thought were native aren't candidates at all once I dig below my assumptions and do some research

How strict will the rules be enforced? And who "certifies" entries? Again, I'd like to abide by the spirit of the rules but I don't want to have an argument 3 years in that my bald cypress forest doesn't qualify because I'm 300 miles outside the native range and not 200

 

[zanduh]

I was thinking through what sorts of "native" species I might give a go for this. It turns out many species that I thought were "native" here because of how ubiquitous they are in the wild (not landscape) aren't truly native here!

I started by going to https://mdc.mo.gov/trees-plants/tree-seedlings which encourages us to "Use native trees and shrubs to improve wildlife habitat and soil and water conservation on your land." But even many of the trees listed there aren't "native" with a little research.

Osage orange is for sale there, for example. It is very common to find in overrun pastures, and lightly wooded areas near where I live. I've always thought of it as a Missouri native. But, according to

https://www.fs.fed.us/database/feis/plants/tree/macpom/all.html#:~:text=GENERAL DISTRIBUTION : Osage-orange is,Red River drainage [4].

it's natural range does not include Missouri

Other trees like bald cypress do extend their native range to Missouri but only to the far south eastern tip of the state. That's about 350 miles from me. Meanwhile, there are so many bald cypress around here it's rediculous.

I think a lot of people in the US are going to have this problem. A lot of what we find in the woods just outside our door is not truly "native" to the area. Westward expansion brought many trees with it that are "native now" but weren't "native then".

Is there a source we should use for what is "native"? I'd like to keep to the spirit of the rules but am finding that a number of my more interesting candidates that I always thought were native aren't candidates at all once I dig below my assumptions and do some research

How strict will the rules be enforced? And who "certifies" entries? Again, I'd like to abide by the spirit of the rules but I don't want to have an argument 3 years in that my bald cypress forest doesn't qualify because I'm 300 miles outside the native range and not 200

Good questions

The 200 Miles rule was a suggestion but it does definitely limit those in larger states. What if we changed it to Within your state (or province) or 200 miles whichever is larger within your country? I don't want this to be so restrictiive that it isn't fun.

As for what is considered native, if you find a source saying that a tree is native to your area then go for it. For example, the Missouri Botanical Garden has a list of native trees:

Native Trees for Missouri Landscapes

Visual guide to growing native trees in Missouri landscapes

www.missouribotanicalgarden.org

 

[leatherback]

larger states

But states are non-natural boundaries. It does not seem to make sense to use that.
I think species native to your region should be clear enough. Not native, they are are out. I find 200 miles to be VERY large regions (You are talking a circly diameter 400 miles already. That could mean multiple countries here and certainly several climatic zones.

 

[Flowerhouse]

I searched "trees native to Wyoming" and found this:

Wyoming Interactive Native Plant and Tree Distribution Range Maps

List of Hardiness Zones for Alabama Cities and Locations

www.plantmaps.com

It's cumbersome because I had to open each map separately, and then sometimes do another search to measure my distance from certain points on the map.
I did end up with a list that included some of my favorites.

 

[canoeguide]

6) Natural containers and containers created by the user must show significant effort and alteration from the base materials

I'm still not sure on the rationale for this rule. As the rules presently exist, I can buy a pot off a shelf or website and that's allowed, but I couldn't spend hours locating the perfect stone slab in the woods unless I modify it significantly?

I think this is looking great, but the pot rules are a little too restrictive or not restrictive enough, IMHO.

 

[Forsoothe!]

In the end, nothing is simple...

 

[zanduh]

I'm still not sure on the rationale for this rule. As the rules presently exist, I can buy a pot off a shelf or website and that's allowed, but I couldn't spend hours locating the perfect stone slab in the woods unless I modify it significantly?

I think this is looking great, but the pot rules are a little too restrictive or not restrictive enough, IMHO.

That's fair, what I was trying to avoid was the "What if I buy a chinese tinfoil platter and drill holes into it" question. I'll take this rule out and if people go very very lazy on the self-made pot like using a cake tin then that's on them.

But states are non-natural boundaries. It does not seem to make sense to use that.
I think species native to your region should be clear enough. Not native, they are are out. I find 200 miles to be VERY large regions (You are talking a circly diameter 400 miles already. That could mean multiple countries here and certainly several climatic zones.

400 miles is pretty hefty you are right.

I was thinking through what sorts of "native" species

You probably are within 200 miles of one of the native range areas. Here is the map for Missouri for Bald Cypress: https://plants.usda.gov/core/profile?symbol=TAXOD



And the Osage-Orange is listed by the USDA as native to most of Missouri:

In the end, nothing is simple...

No it isn't but I'm happy to hash this out now rather than people being mad during the challenge.

 

[roberthu]

Make it to 2021 alive and healthy is my top priority

 

[Kanorin]

Cool contest - I'll be joining for sure.

If I'm reading the rules correctly, I could post my intent to enter 10 different individual trees (or plantings), document the progress on each of them, and then choose the best of those 10 to submit as my final entry?