Acer palmatum beni tsukasa (from cutting)

clem

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thanks @BobbyLane for those great maples pics ! I like those trees very much ! Movements gives beauty IMO

@sorce i prefer to stick to my virtual : a big trunk with big & long branches with very few ramifications (like an octopus ^^ ). I understand that this tree will not be a good one for people who prefer ramified trees.. but i just want to have a tree that i enjoy looking at ( = with my personnal taste) :)
 

BobbyLane

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I rarely open these cultivary maple threads cuz it's usually a shitty graft and a worse story.

The box is my favorite.

Is there nothing noding or coming off that left branch sooner than that far split?

The distance to that first division is ruining my delight.

When growth is so impressive, I, like Alain, won't just get to back patting, I'm looking for how it is driving equally impressive design.

I don't know shit about developing these, so I certainly can't do better, I'm not saying you are doing poorly, I'm saying...

You are doing so well you can do better.

Cut that heffer by a halfer!

Sorce
[/QUOTE]

same, this one slipped under my radar
 

AlainK

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tbf this tree looks like a J maple tree

This tree looks like a willow :



This other one is a willow too :



This one too :



tbf this tree looks like a J maple tree

Certainly not like a 'Beni Tsukasa'. There are over 1,000 cultivars, and the "twisted ones" like you showed are not 'Beni Tsukasa'.

Try to understand me : it's like showing a photo of a Salix erythroflexuosa to justify the design of a Salix purpurea 'nana' :



All right, one can shape any plant in any design, I've done that and I still do for some species, but don't pretend the photos of these contorted maples, most likely lace-leaf maples, can ever look like a mature 'Beni Tsukasa'.

I can understand arguments that are sound and sincere, and based on real examples, but not on fantasy like what Bobby Lane posted.

What's more, the curves in the trees he showed are not spirals or sinusoids.
 

BobbyLane

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ever do a google search of old japanese maple tree, these are the type of images what pop up, im not familiar with the growth habit of the cultivar tbh. i just think the op has nailed this 'look'
 

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AlainK

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Well, Bobby, the pictures you snatched from the web are tagged "Old Japanese maple tree (...)". Once again : what cultivar is this ? at least, this is not the look of a plain Acer palmatum, not at all.

Posting such photos about a discussion on "Beni Tsukasa" amounts to luring people into believing what is actually totally inaccurate.

A "bonsai" is an epitome of nature. Not all people have the same view of what the "ideal look" of a tree is.

For some, it's "naturalistic", for others, it's "fantastic".

Either way, for me, it mustn't look artificial, like spiraling sinusoidal branches obviously built by wiring.

Bobby, the pictures you posted are actually the best exemples of the difference between natural and counterfeit : anyone with the slightest ounce of common sense can tell.

Clem's tree : good cultivation (so far), questionable design (so far).
 
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There is no such thing as « tree in its natural shape ». A trunk shape is the product of the interaction between the specific genetics of a tree and a number of external factors, in which its insulation is very determining.
Meander shapes are typical of understory trees where the trunk searches for a light whose direction changes with time because of other tree growth.
Pictures posted by Bobbylane show Japanese maples grown in garden. It is not counterfeiting, this is a human interpretation of the natural growth habits of A. palmatum, obtained by selective cut but not by wiring.
And interpreting natural habits is what we always do in bonsai.
 

clem

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@AlainK can you show me a pic of a 100+ years old Beni Tsukasa palmatum growing in the wild ? (growing in a garden, growing in a forest, growing in a mountain etc) thx for your help ^^
 
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Woocash

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There is no such thing as « tree in its natural shape
I’m afraid I have to respectfully disagree here. Go and find a hill with a clear view from the top and look at the trees on the horizon. I mean several miles away. It works better in winter obviously, but I’ll bet you can name all or most of the species you see. There maybe a couple wrong here and there, of course, but I’d bet anyone who knows trees intimately can tell the difference between species from their silhouette.

Trees, in the main, exhibit a natural shape and structure or habit which they will always adhere to in normal circumstances. Take your understory trees. The species not expecting to reach the canopy will weave and meander to find the light, but the ones who know they will have to be ready to claim the void left by a fallen giant grow straight and true. So, it could be said those in the understory are growing in their natural habit anyway. No two will grow the same, but they stick to a certain formula under certain conditions.

. . .

As for Clems tree, I think his representation of the tree he was aiming for in first place is coming along beautifully. It is a fantasy tree, just like his inspiration. The Angel Oak is a true one off (or very few off), hence it being famous, so not adhering to natural species or cultivar habits to recreate it seems necessary. If I were trying to re create it then an oak would not be the first species I’d necessarily look to either if I wanted to live to see it finished. Though it would look pretty damn awesome.
 

clem

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i like every old looking tree with big branches bending under their own weight.. Nature is an incredible source of inspiration. IMO we can't do better in our imagination ^^
plane tree ->
platane.jpg

cypress (?)
cyprès.jpg




I think Japanese maple is a good specie to choose because it grows and thickens quick, it has nice small leaves (changing colors, finely cut leaves etc), nice light ramifications, the bark is interesting when the tree is mature (cracks, changing colors from the base to the top : the beni tsukasa has a dark brown color on the base of the trunk and a purple red color on small ramifications)
 

Davidlpf

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Nice evolution, thanks for sharing!

But IMHO the primary branching is getting too coarse, isn't?

Maybe you should make a heavy pruning soon. ;)

Best regards.
 

clem

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Nice evolution, thanks for sharing!

But IMHO the primary branching is getting too coarse, isn't?

Maybe you should make a heavy pruning soon. ;)

Best regards.
yes, i will cut some parts of branches to do "clip & grow"; but, in the end, the branch will be "big" like on the virtual i posted before (like an octopus)
 
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clem

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I pruned that tree yesterday, but there are still sacrifice branches. The fall colors are now more "red" ->
acer palmatum beni tsukasa 2020 11 09 001.JPG
After pruning ->
acer palmatum beni tsukasa 2020 11 09 002.JPG

@Davidlpf i made a virtual to show were i plan to cut (next summer or in 2 years) ->
acer palmatum beni tsukasa 2020 11 09 004virt1.jpg

Virtual after the cut (the secondary branches will grow and continue the development of the branches and apex) ->
acer palmatum beni tsukasa 2020 11 09 004virt2.jpg

My inspiration branches are the one of ash trees near to my home (fraxinus).. The branches get movement because the main branches growing down slowly get weaker and weaker, and then die, and the secondary branch growing up developps and get bigger & bigger ->
IMG_1659-1.jpg
IMG_1659-2.JPG
IMG_1662.JPG

Beautifull branches with a lot of rythm (curves and breaks). I'd love to have this on my tree ->
IMG_1664-1.jpg
 

b3bowen

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I keep coming back to look at this thread. What incredible work. Thank you so much for posting @clem. I don’t think this tree looks to sinusoidal like an octopus at all. I think it’s a great representation of Japanese maple. It is so good to see people designing Japanese maple that don’t look like pine trees.
With regards to how natural this tree looks, here’s a picture of a 600-year-old Japanese maple. Leaves appear to be standard Japanese maple.DD789FC3-BC70-4C3F-96FF-80EBC9BAFD04.png

Of course, dissectum takes it to the extreme, but I think that many varieties of Japanese maple once old enough, demonstrate a sinusoidal growth pattern.
 

clem

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thank you very much for your comment. I agree with you, i was just looking at this 600 Y.O. palmatum yesterday !
Very old trees have sometimes big and large branches with curves, as long as those branches survive or aren't cut by someone. It is the big branches that make the big trunks anyway :)

Above this, anybody can represent a Bonsai with a different shape/look, even if it doesn't look natural. The important thing is to enjoy looking at our trees. We do Bonsai for our own pleasure, contemplation & well-being 🤗 above all.
 

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