Akadama, Pumice with Humic & Fulvic acids

[Stickroot]

Don't take the brown acid!

Is that what happen to you

 

[M. Frary]

Is that what happen to you

No my mom did!

 

[M. Frary]

Straight D.E. doesn't work that well for me. My trees lived but didn't thrive like they do once I added lava to it.

 

[devolved primate]

Humid and fulvic acids have been shown to help nutrient availability through a wider range of ph due to their ability to help chelate the ions and anions that are the molecules actually absorbed by the roots....in other words the acids (while not actual plant nutrients like n,p,k,ca,mg, etc)help to make your plants food more available through a wider range of growing conditions basically allowing your plants to continue to feed normally in more adverse growing conditions. Mycorrhizal inoculation esp endo cause a significant extension of the root mass by the filaments extended from the fungi into the surrounding media. This causes a symbiotic exchange of nutrients ion/anion from the myco filament to the root and root exudates such as sugars and starches are given back to the mycos in return.

 

[Vin]

Uh-oh, we got us one of those there soil engine-ears joinin' the partay.

 

[devolved primate]

Yeah, that's right but my expertise is more like 20 plus years of commercial hydroponic production. but thats ok, ignore me and denigrate any comment i make since im not a "masterpiece" of bonsai such as yourself and could not have any knowledge relevant to the conversation. I'm sure all your witty comments in this thread have been extremely helpful to anyone reading them much more so than my explanation on humic acid and endo-myco fungi. Have a great day down there in God's waiting room otherwise known as florida. Thankful every day that I moved away after 35 years to raise my family, definitely too many people concerned with moving down there and getting older to be better at pissing people off.

 

[parhamr]

wat

 

[Vin]

Yeah, that's right but my expertise is more like 20 plus years of commercial hydroponic production. but thats ok, ignore me and denigrate any comment i make since im not a "masterpiece" of bonsai such as yourself and could not have any knowledge relevant to the conversation. I'm sure all your witty comments in this thread have been extremely helpful to anyone reading them much more so than my explanation on humic acid and endo-myco fungi. Have a great day down there in God's waiting room otherwise known as florida. Thankful every day that I moved away after 35 years to raise my family, definitely too many people concerned with moving down there and getting older to be better at pissing people off.

Hmmm... It's good to see you didn't take offense to my lighthearted comment (often times followed by a winking emoji). You see, It gets boring sometimes just sitting here in Florida waiting to die so I pass the time by trolling this forum looking for people to insult (another lighthearted comment followed by ). But seriously, I meant no offense so I apologize for my insensitive remarks.

Look, I'm sure you're way more educated than I when it comes to the subject matter that started this thread. It's just that I've been involved with so many soil controversies and no one has yet come up with a mix that everyone agrees on. These soil threads are a kind of inside joke on this forum but if those who start them would just take the time to search old threads their questions would probably be answered. It's kind of like always having to ask new members to update their location and plant hardiness zone. With that, I will refrain from commenting anymore on this thread unless I have something helpful to add.

 

[M. Frary]

With that, I will refrain from commenting anymore on this thread unless I have something helpful to add.

Not me. Never. I have nothing helpful to add.
It was acid and fulvic that drew me in.

 

[LanceMac10]

Yeah, that's right but my expertise is more like 20 plus years of commercial hydroponic production. but thats ok, ignore me and denigrate any comment i make since im not a "masterpiece" of bonsai such as yourself and could not have any knowledge relevant to the conversation. I'm sure all your witty comments in this thread have been extremely helpful to anyone reading them much more so than my explanation on humic acid and endo-myco fungi. Have a great day down there in God's waiting room otherwise known as florida. Thankful every day that I moved away after 35 years to raise my family, definitely too many people concerned with moving down there and getting older to be better at pissing people off.

Any bonsai or do you just have a bunch of spider-plant cuttings in a glass of water?


Lighten up bro

 

[milehigh_7]

One important diatomaceous earth note is it's alkaline! I always add supplemental iron when my mix has a lot of DE.

Not exactly...
pH (10% SUSPENSION) 7

 

[parhamr]

Not exactly...
pH (10% SUSPENSION) 7

This supplier states it varies between a pH of 6 and 11: http://www.imerys-perfmins.com/diatomite/eu/diatomaceous-earth.htm

I’m sure there’s a huge variance in mine location, vendor blend, and processing routines.

 

[milehigh_7]

Humid and fulvic acids have been shown to help nutrient availability through a wider range of ph due to their ability to help chelate the ions and anions that are the molecules actually absorbed by the roots....in other words the acids (while not actual plant nutrients like n,p,k,ca,mg, etc)help to make your plants food more available through a wider range of growing conditions basically allowing your plants to continue to feed normally in more adverse growing conditions. Mycorrhizal inoculation esp endo cause a significant extension of the root mass by the filaments extended from the fungi into the surrounding media. This causes a symbiotic exchange of nutrients ion/anion from the myco filament to the root and root exudates such as sugars and starches are given back to the mycos in return.

Correct among other things

 

[milehigh_7]

This supplier states it varies between a pH of 6 and 11: http://www.imerys-perfmins.com/diatomite/eu/diatomaceous-earth.htm

I’m sure there’s a huge variance in mine location, vendor blend, and processing routines.

There is really only one, at least in the US, EP minerals. Here are the SDS sheets for Optisorb and NAPA 8822 (they make both)

 

[coh]

This supplier states it varies between a pH of 6 and 11: http://www.imerys-perfmins.com/diatomite/eu/diatomaceous-earth.htm

I’m sure there’s a huge variance in mine location, vendor blend, and processing routines.

I think I read the same thing about turface somewhere. I don't know how easy it is to measure pH of a solid substance like DE or turface, if the ionic concentration of the resulting solution is low I think the resulting value can be very hard to pin down. It's like trying to measure the pH of rain water - not so easy unless you have very expensive/sophisticated instruments. Even then, I think the pH can change easily as CO2 dissolves in or out, etc. So perhaps the pH of a liquid sample might he high (8 or 9) but it might very quickly equilibrate to a more neutral value.

Any chemists around? I know just enough to be dangerous.

 

[M. Frary]

measure pH of a solid

Lick it.

 

[milehigh_7]

However, DE does do a few things with the heavy metals in the soil requiring some calcium supplement read this from EP's website:

"Diatomaceous Earth consists of the fossilized remains of millions of microscopic single-cell plants called diatoms which were deposited millions of years ago on the beds of oceans and lakes. Its uses in agriculture are many. It is a useful addition to compost heaps and the soil because it is a once living form of silica and has high paramagnetism. It stimulates healthy growth of plant root systems. It conditions the soil by making silica available to plants, improving cation exchange capacity, soil conductivity, and helps the soil to retain water. It is advised that a calcium source (hydrated lime, agricultural lime or gypsum) be added at the same time so that the calcium and cations can occupy the sites left by aluminum which is bounded by the soluble silica.

In the soil, soluble silica in the form of silicic acid plays a number of important roles: it binds aluminum, manganese, and heavy metals thus reducing their toxicity. It also improves the plant availability of calcium and phosphorus and increases the number of beneficial soil organisms, particularly beneficial fungi.

Silica is deposited as opaline silica in plant tissue – this toughens the plant, making it more resistant to fungal attack. A high silica content also makes the plant less palatable to insects."​

 

[Vin]

I've been chomping at the bit for a few years waiting to hear someone who has tried Zeolite on these soil threads. Has anyone tried it? https://www.houseofbonsai.com/produ...edium-3-mm-to-improve-bonsai-soil-huge-sucess

 

[milehigh_7]

I have not tried it. If I could find some that was not extremely fine I would. It's CEC is very high.

 

[Starfox]

One important diatomaceous earth note is it's alkaline! I always add supplemental iron when my mix has a lot of DE.

The kitty litter DE that I use is Danish Moler clay and according to this https://www.skamol.com/about/production/materials/moler-and-diatomite the Danish clay has a high iron content.
Going to have to look into it more now. Wonder if the difference is noticeable or more academic.

t