Azaleas John Geanangle Method?

[jbhampton31]

Has anyone had any success using the John Geanangle method of hard cut backs to branches and roots on satsuki azaleas? I got 4 1 gal Gumpos at my local nursery and want to give it a shot. When is the best time to start them. What size pot or grow bag would you put them in after cutting the roots back? Any tips or info is appreciated

 

[Gabler]

I'm not familiar with the John Geangle method, but my single satsuki azalea has responded well to hard chops.

@Glaucus is an azalea farmer who knows an astonishing amount about the temperaments of different varieties.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Maybe we should ask @johng ?

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

We have tried @johng method. Works fine, especially with small leaves and mid to small flowers satsuki. Believe he likes to use Chinzan which I’d readily available. The White Gumpo might work. Can’t tell the other ones name,

Only difference was we root washed the azaleas and put in in a kanumaumice mix 90:10 plus added Biochar 5% on top of the base mix.

But don’t see why the method he used won’t work in your area.

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[jbhampton31]

Maybe we should ask @johng ?

I have seen all his videos on YouTube just want to adapt to my climate in East TN. I am finishing my 2nd winter in bonsai so it is all very new to me. l am a MABK member if anyone is familiar, it was started by Warren Hill whom I didn't have the chance to learn from since he fell ill before i started. A few of our club members that have taken workshops from him from @johng on Elms and Bald Cypress .. I have alot of other posts on questions on some large tree's i've gotten and trying to get them back in the shape they where in most came from a club member's widow and have grown out. If anyone has any tips or comments on those posts any help would be appreciated.

 

[jbhampton31]

We have tried @johng method. Works fine, especially with small leaves and mid to small flowers satsuki. Believe he likes to use Chinzan which I’d readily available. The White Gumpo might work. Can’t tell the other ones name,

Only difference was we root washed the azaleas and put in in a kanumaumice mix 90:10 plus added Biochar 5% on top of the base mix.

But don’t see why the method he used won’t work in your area.

Cheers
DSD sends

I have white gumpo and pink gumpo the only satsukis at my local nursery... I have 2 azaleas in grow bags that were started and purchased from @johng I don't know how long ago... They are "eikan"white an pink and "wakamatsu"purple i havent seen them in flower yet bought them last Sept I think.

 

[jbhampton31]

We have tried @johng method. Works fine, especially with small leaves and mid to small flowers satsuki. Believe he likes to use Chinzan which I’d readily available. The White Gumpo might work. Can’t tell the other ones name,

Only difference was we root washed the azaleas and put in in a kanumaumice mix 90:10 plus added Biochar 5% on top of the base mix.

But don’t see why the method he used won’t work in your area.

Cheers
DSD sends

when is the best time to start them... we have 27 deg temps for a few hrs coming up tuesday and hoping after that it will stay warm because I have a ton of trees leafing out already... And what container size would you put the 1 gals in after i prune the roots hard?

 

[Glaucus]

You should probably do it right now. I don't know your local climate, but I have a few Kozan and Chinzan that I plan to chop tomorrow.
I only tried the John method once. But he documented how it works and what the results are years ago, as you saw. Additionally, the Japanese also prune off all leaves regularly. The timing is late winter.
Just protect from frost and too much direct sun after pruning off all leaves.

You also do not need to necessarily prune off everything. I am not sure if a semichop gets backbudding results that are inferior.
But it all has to do with what your exact goals are. Get backbudding, prevent reverse taper, get rid of long straight branches, bring all foliage closer to the trunk for a sumo-style bonsai, etc.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Ok, think I understand. Both Gumbos with work fine. They do have medium large frilly flowers so one would want a larger composition to make space for the flowers… and also prune until the buds are spaced out. @johng azaleas, of course will work fine. Eikan larger composition. Wakamatsu is a cultivar not familiar with.

when is the best time to start them... we have 27 deg temps for a few hrs coming up tuesday and hoping after that it will stay warm because I have a ton of trees leafing out already...

Wait until most frost is past, or plan to bring the trees inside the garage during nightly frosts. We are just starting azalea work out here. Having just come back from Osk Ridge TN last week, I’d say likely you are fine starting now given the trees are protected at night. The window will close by the end of April, depending on the high temperatures then and where the azaleas will reside. A good morning sun afternoon strongly dappled shade or bright shade.

And what container size would you put the 1 gals in after i prune the roots hard?

likely a 6 or a 7” tokoname training pot, just a guess. Azaleas like deeper pots then most bonsai.

cheers
DSD sends
.

 

[Glaucus]

Also consider this pruning technique:

 

[jbhampton31]

Ok, think I understand. Both Gumbos with work fine. They do have medium large frilly flowers so one would want a larger composition to make space for the flowers… and also prune until the buds are spaced out. @johng azaleas, of course will work fine. Eikan larger composition. Wakamatsu is a cultivar not familiar with.

Wait until most frost is past, or plan to bring the trees inside the garage during nightly frosts. We are just starting azalea work out here. Having just come back from Osk Ridge TN last week, I’d say likely you are fine starting now given the trees are protected at night. The window will close by the end of April, depending on the high temperatures then and where the azaleas will reside. A good morning sun afternoon strongly dappled shade or bright shade.

likely a 6 or a 7” tokoname training pot, just a guess. Azaleas like deeper pots then most bonsai.

cheers
DSD sends
.

ok i did buy some 6 in azelea italian terracotta pots they seemed to hold up pretty well with some of the small tridents i put in them last yr... Oh wow that is a really big nice tree! I am hoping to keep these as small shohin trees... like he says in videos he isnt too concerned with the flower but just making a nice shohin tree. I have alot of really big projects going for now I am all set on big trees... If you check my other posts you'll see a really large cork bark elm and quite a few large trees that need cut back smaller over time... Thank you for the guidance... Maybe one day I will tackle an azaleas like that if given the opportunity!

 

[johng]

Good morning... I have drastically pruned more than 100 gumpo azaleas just in the last couple of years...it is challenging to find gumpos with single trunks of decent size IME. It works fine. pot size is up to you...for years I just cut one gallon nursery pots in half. Now I use one gallon fabric grow bags folded down. I have done drastic pruning successfully throughout the first half of the growing season. My preference now is to wait until May...certainly wait until after the last frost in your area. Your Eikan is a variable bloomer with a base color of white and variations of pink stripes and such. Wakamatsu is the name the nursery used...I am not really familiar with it outside of that reference. It is somewhere close to Wakabieshu except it has a medium sized light purple flower. I grow all of my azaleas in a high quality peat, bark and perlite mix and they've always done very well... The landscape growers in my area use sand and decomposed pine bark.

 

[jbhampton31]

Good morning... I have drastically pruned more than 100 gumpo azaleas just in the last couple of years...it is challenging to find gumpos with single trunks of decent size IME. It works fine. pot size is up to you...for years I just cut one gallon nursery pots in half. Now I use one gallon fabric grow bags folded down. I have done drastic pruning successfully throughout the first half of the growing season. My preference now is to wait until May...certainly wait until after the last frost in your area. Your Eikan is a variable bloomer with a base color of white and variations of pink stripes and such. Wakamatsu is the name the nursery used...I am not really familiar with it outside of that reference. It is somewhere close to Wakabieshu except it has a medium sized light purple flower. I grow all of my azaleas in a high quality peat, bark and perlite mix and they've always done very well... The landscape growers in my area use sand and decomposed pine bark.

Hey thank you so much for explaining the pot size and timing. I really enjoy your videos and the posts you put on facebook your work speaks for itself and is amazing! I am looking forward to seeing the ones already started by you bloom this year. The gumpos from the local nursery I am going to follow your method, using the saw early before they bloom, and just focus on making a small shohin trees. I am not going to concerned with the flowers at this point, use that energy for back budding the tree... I really appreciate you responding to this post, not something I expected!

 

[brentwood]

I have one of John's now going into its third year, a pinkish-purple Chinzan - always looking for excuse to share. First pic is in his folded root bag, picked up a deep Beeman pot last spring - fancy grow pot theory.... Is it really pink?
Plan to thin out center this year, open up, work on height a little.

B

 

[Joe Dupre']

I've only done one with John's method. I cut it back to about 5 nubs......no green. It sprouted very well. It's been 4 years and it's still doing nicely. It's getting a bit leggy, though. Another hard prune next spring??

 

[RaginCajun]

Not sure of the exact cultivar. But this one was imported in 2023. I didn't touch it last yr at all, I just let it grow like crazy to regain its vigor, which it has impressively. It was a huge helmet of long shoots. I pruned it about 2 wks ago. It hasn't really responded as fast to hard pruning as most azaleas I've done in the past. But this is, also, the earliest I've ever pruned an azalea. It's usually late May or first week of June down here. It is now budding out like crazy all over. I'll do some more selective branch pruning after all the new growth hardens off. Repot next spring.

 

[jbhampton31]

I have one of John's now going into its third year, a pinkish-purple Chinzan - always looking for excuse to share. First pic is in his folded root bag, picked up a deep Beeman pot last spring - fancy grow pot theory.... Is it really pink?
Plan to thin out center this year, open up, work on height a little.

B

looks awesome in that pot!

 

[jbhampton31]

starting to get new buds popping out on the azaleas I used the @johng method on

 

[jbhampton31]

I repotted the 2 azaleas that @johng started and a club member was selling some he had bought last yr. I put them in just round tokaname production pots from bonsai outlet for now as 1st time out of the bag and into a bonsai pot.I bought another yesterday that was already in a bonsai pot, but haven't done any trimming it up yet. Had help.from club memebers on repot and trimming

 

[Ruddigger]

I havent done it on a satsuki azaleas, they kind of hate it here. But on western azaleas I’ve cut back to just a stump with no roots and had great success.

May 2020


Nov 2020