Bare Rooting Repot

[Bonsai Nut]

One thing that has not come up in this conversation is that there is a world of difference between bare-rooting a tree being brought in from the wild, a tree that is root-bound in a nursery pot, and a tree with nice roots already well-established in bonsai soil - even when they are the same species.

Also, in terms of half-bare root, I normally think of the rootball as a pie, and work "slices" of the pie all the way to the center. I wouldn't typically recommend the "outer half / inner half" method, since the inner half is normally where the problems are going to lie (usually the oldest soil, most compact, fewest fine roots, etc). Again, "it depends"... and is another reason why you should inspect the rootball thoroughly before you dive in and start cutting. I have had some unpleasant surprises with an initial repot, when I find roots that are extremely one-sided, or long and wrap around the base, or are otherwise messed up, when a "normal" approach would not apply. Once established in bonsai soil, those problems have typically been addressed a long time ago.

 

[bwaynef]

A better analogy might be the symbiotic relationship between mammals and their gut flora, which play a role in breaking down nutrients into bioavailable forms that can be absorbed by the intestines. Extensive use of powerful antibiotics can wipe out this microbiome.

As I've come to learn over the past several years, "the gut" (microbiome in this instance) is where the immune system begins.

 

[River's Edge]

Thanks for all the great insight in this thread. With me being totally new to the hobby I’ll stick with the HBR method this spring and do my best to be slow, gentle, and intentional with the process. I might experiment with leaving the shin intact or doing the HBR method laid out by Adair. As of now I only have two maybe three trees that are ready for a repot.

You have not posted a picture of the tree or trees you are considering for repot! So I just feel it is important to make one more distinction. LOL

When professionals describe common techniques for repotting they will set the scene for when the technique is most appropriately used. It does not indicate the technique is always used. It is very easy to get enthusiastic about the steps laid out by a professional without keeping in mind the specifics of when the steps apply.

Assessing the situation correctly is what determines when to leave " the shin intact" and when the core is the problem, and therefore needs to be changed first.
1.The HBR method addresses this issue in stages, and most of the time this is very effective.
2.Other times the core must be excavated first and the relatively healthy roots on the perimeter left alone until the core is repopulated with feeder roots.
3. Other times the "Shin" or core is perfectly fine and can be left alone for a decade. Full of feeder roots and functioning fine with good drainage and particles intact.
( this is most often the case when working with trees that have previously been repotted correctly with inorganic substrate) So if you are taking classes from a professional and working in their studio this will be the norm. Unless starting new or collected stock.
4. One time when 1/2 HBR is very ineffective is when sporadic areas of weakness occur in the root ball, such as collected trees with very weak sections that are interspersed with stronger sections of feeder roots. In this case it is best to select the weakest sections for bare rooting and leave the stronger sections to help recover rather than choose one side over the other. A combination method of the central core and 1/3 of the perimeter may be the best option.

Problems with the core are very common with collected trees where the native soil has been removed from the perimeter but the core was left intact. It is also very common with landscape nursery trees that have been repotted incorrectly for years leaving nursery soil at the core. the practise of slip potting contributes greatly to this issue. Also the practise of cutting off the bottom and combing out the sides and calling it a repot is a great contributor to this issue. beginners are often hesitant to disturb too much and stay on the outside when repotting.

For those who wish to know how to identify the problem look no further than the trees that are consistently potted way too high up in the pot. The tell tale dome with over exposed roots that signal a neglected core. This is not the "shin" that is the heartbeat of the tree, it is the " black hole of decay" in most cases. Often the tell tale indicator is the colour change of the soil between the roots mounded up above the rim of the pot. This is usually the result of poor repotting techniques over an extended period of time.

Assessing the situation correctly is what determines when to leave " the shin intact" and when the core is the problem. soap box leaving stage right!

 

[leatherback]

One thing that has not come up in this conversation is that there is a world of difference between bare-rooting a tree being brought in from the wild, a tree that is root-bound in a nursery pot,

really?


At times I wonder whether half of the people here have me on ignore, lol

Whether it is a recently collected yamadori or nursery grown. 2 years old or 200 years old. There are many factors at play here.

 

[MSU JBoots]

really?


At times I wonder whether half of the people here have me on ignore, lol

Leatherback I don’t ignore. In fact I’ve been enjoying combing through your website!

 

[MSU JBoots]

These are the trees for potential repot. The shimpaku and dwarf Alberta spruce I got in fall and never touched. The juniper chinensis I got just adfter Christmas and gently ( I think ) styled. Sorry I don’t have another pic of the spruce.

 

[leatherback]

shimpaku

Be very good on the lower branches, and hold back the top a bit: These lower branches can help you fatten the lower part of the trunk a bit, helping with taper.

As I do not have spruce, no comments there. But the junipers, I would not worry too much about a gentle bare rooting. (Which means, probably 90% of the substrate is off, with some bits here and there left). Then protect from frost. They are both young and healthy by the looks of it. (Just make sure the styled one IS indeed happy)

 

[Lorax7]

As I've come to learn over the past several years, "the gut" (microbiome in this instance) is where the immune system begins.

Except that it doesn’t. The bone marrow is where the stem cells originate from. The reason why I said the symbiosis between gut flora and mammals was a better analogy for the relationship between plant and mycorrhizae was because their functional relationship is similar. Namely, the gut flora and mycorrhizae both play a role in nutrition by converting raw materials into bioavailable forms that can then be taken up and utilized by the macro organism (mammal/plant). These microbiomes may play a role in cell signaling, but they are not themselves part of the immune system. Their impact is on the overall health of the organism and is indirect, through nutrition. There’s no direct linkage to the immune system (i.e. gut flora do not produce macrophages, NK cells, etc.).

 

[Shibui]

These trees are standard, relatively young, nursery production. As @leatherback has said I don't think you'd have any problem repotting any of these 3. I'd usually reduce roots by up to 3/4 and replace 90% of the soil if required.

 

[leatherback]

Except that it doesn’t.

Do a bit of a read-up on gut biome & immunity, and you might change your mind.. Recent years huge developments have been made in understanding, and it seems there is a much bigger role for our gut than previously understood.

 

[Lorax7]

Do a bit of a read-up on gut biome & immunity, and you might change your mind.. Recent years huge developments have been made in understanding, and it seems there is a much bigger role for our gut than previously understood.

Gut tissue, being part of the animal, is part of the immune system. Gut flora, being exogenous, is not. Healthy, balanced colonies have an impact on health, mainly through preventing any one rogue strain from moving in and taking over colonization of the gut lumen, but that’s not the same thing as being “where the immune system begins” or being part of the immune system at all. I chose my words carefully the first time around and I am well aware of the research that says gut flora can have a profound effect on human health. However, interacting with the immune system in ways that can impact health is not the same thing as actually being part of the immune system (which the flora are not).

Again, bringing this back to trees. It’s simply wrong to say that the mycorrhizae are part of the tree’s immune system. Being exogenous, they cannot be. They can have a profound impact on tree health, but that effect is indirect.

 

[leatherback]

It’s simply wrong to say that the mycorrhizae are part of the tree’s immune system. Being exogenous, they cannot be

OK, I am not going to continue this discussion. As said, do some reading. Recent developments indicate that your assumption is wrong.

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/research/advancements-in-research/fundamentals/in-depth/the-gut-where-bacteria-and-immune-system-mee

t


Turning it to plants

Endomycorrhizae - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

www.sciencedirect.com

 

[Japonicus]

and what species if any you feel you can totally bare root right of the bat.

Yew for conifers, for one, respond well to full washing/jetting out - bare rooting.

This was July 2019, didn't skip a beat, still growing just fine.

I am one who keeps the crown in tact 1st repot on most other conifers.
In fact, I may take years in some cases getting all of the old soil changed out, but make the crown more porous each time I repot.
Your maple will do fine to bare root this Spring before the new buds open.

 

[Lorax7]

As said, do some reading.

I don't need to. I've read extensively on the topic. Your suggestion that I need to "do some reading" is really condescending. The Hopkins guy you quoted is tailoring his language for an audience of non-scientists and that is why he is being imprecise about exactly where the system boundaries are.

The questions to ask are: What, exactly, is part of the organism? What is the environment of the organism? The organism has a genetic code shared by all its cells (excepting for errors in transcription). If a cell has that shared genetic code, it's part of the organism. Otherwise, it's part of the environment. Environment can still play an important role in health, but that doesn't make it part of the organism.

 

[leatherback]

I guess you are just making exactly making my point. If you define the immune system by being limited to the cells of the organism, by definition, the immune system is limited to what is happening inside the organism. Current studies however indicate more and more, that the system extends outside the cells of the organism.

 

[BrightsideB]

Yew for conifers, for one, respond well to full washing/jetting out - bare rooting.
View attachment 417220
This was July 2019, didn't skip a beat, still growing just fine.

I am one who keeps the crown in tact 1st repot on most other conifers.
In fact, I may take years in some cases getting all of the old soil changed out, but make the crown more porous each time I repot.
Your maple will do fine to bare root this Spring before the new buds open.

Do you have recent photo’s? And in theory I would imagine depending on the level at which a conifer would have a symbiotic relationship with the organisms in the native soil could it cause a concern washing it all out. But I have never bare rooted a conifer. It freaks me out lol. But I am also not very experienced. I have found methods that work well and keep my tree’s living well so I continue doing those methods.

 

[Japonicus]

Do you have recent photo’s? And in theory I would imagine depending on the level at which a conifer would have a symbiotic relationship with the organisms in the native soil could it cause a concern washing it all out. But I have never bare rooted a conifer. It freaks me out lol. But I am also not very experienced. I have found methods that work well and keep my tree’s living well so I continue doing those methods.

So I just went in the "cave" and snapped a couple shots with my phone for ya.
It's an Emerald Spreader and has a slow growth rate, so not a lot of growth especially
being in a pot already.

2nd image is with flash looking down.
I'm with you on conifers there, but for Taxus I no hesitation recommending this on a healthy specimen.

1st Yew ! Taxus cuspidata Japanese Yew Emerald Spreader

Got my first Yew today :cool: It is labeled Taxus Emerald Spreader. On Monrovias website > Emerald Spreader Plant Japanese Yew.Taxus cuspidata 'Monloo' https://www.monrovia.com/plant-catalog/plants/2147/emerald-spreader-japanese-yew/ 1.73 gal size #2 $30. No more poorly documented trees for...

www.bonsainut.com

Here's the thread I started on it when I bought the nursery plant.

 

[BrightsideB]

So I just went in the "cave" and snapped a couple shots with my phone for ya.
It's an Emerald Spreader and has a slow growth rate, so not a lot of growth especially
being in a pot already.
View attachment 417279 View attachment 417280
2nd image is with flash looking down.
I'm with you on conifers there, but for Taxus I no hesitation recommending this on a healthy specimen.

1st Yew ! Taxus cuspidata Japanese Yew Emerald Spreader

Got my first Yew today :cool: It is labeled Taxus Emerald Spreader. On Monrovias website > Emerald Spreader Plant Japanese Yew.Taxus cuspidata 'Monloo' https://www.monrovia.com/plant-catalog/plants/2147/emerald-spreader-japanese-yew/ 1.73 gal size #2 $30. No more poorly documented trees for...

www.bonsainut.com

Here's the thread I started on it when I bought the nursery plant.

Thanks for the photo’s! It has grown a good bit! Looking great! I have one as well that I bought two years ago. I was successfull with some cuttings from it. I haven’t taken it out of the nursery pot yet. Was planning to this spring. Probably not going to bare root it kind of declined due to my pruning and neglect. But it will do fine I’m sure.