Basic Bonsai Styling Principles: Where do they come from?

[BeebsBonsai]

And FWIW, the place where most of the $$ is made in bonsai-- mass produced bonsai or mallsai--DON'T ADHERE TO DESIGN RULES. They aren't wired, or pruned much. They are plunked in the cheapest smallest pot possible because it's less expensive, but not because of design rules. Mass produced trees are mostly made in China AND ISRAEL, or at some hack nursery in the country they're sold in.

Bonsai conspiracy theories, like the vast majority of conspiracy theories, are bullcrap... No doubt you will find followers ;-)

Besides, no one is making anyone follow the rules, for God's sake. Also FWIW, I too have seen forest groups with even numbers (GASP), I've even seen even numbers suggested in bonsai books from Japan...I've seen trees that don't have traditionally arranged branches and in pots that are too big for them. I've seen trees that don't follow the rules, but work and others that are eyesores...

Follow the rules as you will, or cower in the corner at the cabal of horrid Japanese nursery-enforced mandates, your choice.

I didnt mean to seem aggressive. It was a train of thought. Poorly worded intros cause problems. I was trying to delve into how the angle of efficiency can be applied or may have had a hand in galvanizing these concepts

 

[Bonsai Nut]

You don't seem to understand some of the rules that you are quoting as rules. If you don't understand "why" you are doing something in bonsai, you can make up any rationale you want - but it probably won't be the right one. I would recommend reading some bonsai design books like:

Principles of Bonsai Design

Additionally, I will just correct you on one important point - a smaller pot is not always better. I know of no one who teaches / suggests this. The pot should compliment the tree - the tree determines the optimal size and dimensions of the pot.

 

[BeebsBonsai]

I didn't wade thru the entire novella until I saw something about OSHA. Had to go back for it. The thought that the reason for rules is to save money has earned you a "you are crazy beebs" vote from me LOL.

I had to take the 30 hr. I figured itd give someone a laugh. Pry why im nuts. Lol

 

[BeebsBonsai]

Remove?

 

[JudyB]

Remove?

Not a chance. @Smoke and @Smoke's Momma are probably at the mini mart right now buying a loaf of microwave popcorn...

 

[rockm]

I didnt mean to seem aggressive. It was a train of thought. Poorly worded intros cause problems. I was trying to delve into how the angle of efficiency can be applied or may have had a hand in galvanizing these concepts

"The rules" simply have no relationship to efficiency. They are much older than bonsai. They are simply artistic principles that are used throughout the art world in one way or another for centuries, if not millennia--They've just been listed as "bonsai rules" for lack of better terminology--back branches give depth, the forward lean of the trunk gives forced perspective, the pot the complementing frame to set the mood for the view of the tree, etc.

Instead of thinking of the as "The Rules" think of them as the numbers in a paint-by-number set. You apply the correct color/branch placement, etc. and you can reliably make a bonsai. They can also be thought of as the paint on a palette that can be used selectively (but ignored too) to make a bonsai.

 

[watchndsky]

But what kind of soil should i use?

 

[Dav4]

But what kind of soil should i use?

Turface and compost or leaf mold!!!

 

[Paradox]

TLDR also

The rules are meant as a guide to help make a more visually aesthetically pleasing tree.
There are times when the rules are broken when the tree doesnt or cant conform to the rules for one reason or another or when there is another way that is just as good or better.

 

[Adair M]

I voted "Crazy", but now that I've given it a bit of thought, it's really quite humorous!

I especially like the point of circle a clump of trees and count them. Half the time the number of trees will be odd! Half the time it will be even! Whoa! Deep thinking!

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

But what kind of soil should i use?

Depends, let's work out your fertilizer plan first.

 

[Adair M]

Depends, let's work out your fertilizer plan first.

No, the watering schedule must be done before that!

 

[sorce]

Growing Bonsai and Big Business really don't mix...less your kids and grandkids are in on it.

Ask the last guy who had his "hope" rock shattered when he realized I could buy that same ficus...or a Fukien tea that looks just like it, or an elm....same same...
If I can find one still Alive!

Ok...it mixes to make Bullshit but that's it.

Collecting...stlying...

Or working on what is already old material, as in Japan...

That has a slight chance, on a righteous path. The risk is almost too great for smart business.

And....

Make no mistake...

There is a Feller making it A lot more risky....

Ryan Neil is crushing the game!
Just saying....F diplomatic!

All these "just back from Japan" cats are stirring the Kakadama!

We're witnessing change.

Good times!

Sorce

 

[milehigh_7]

But what kind of soil should i use?

Get this crap back on Facebook where it belongs! LOL

 

[Smoke]

"The rules" simply have no relationship to efficiency. They are much older than bonsai. They are simply artistic principles that are used throughout the art world in one way or another for centuries, if not millennia--They've just been listed as "bonsai rules" for lack of better terminology--back branches give depth, the forward lean of the trunk gives forced perspective, the pot the complementing frame to set the mood for the view of the tree, etc.

Instead of thinking of the as "The Rules" think of them as the numbers in a paint-by-number set. You apply the correct color/branch placement, etc. and you can reliably make a bonsai. They can also be thought of as the paint on a palette that can be used selectively (but ignored too) to make a bonsai.

This is determination. I applaud you for actually taking the time to explain the rationale for bonsai without even seeing a tree. Vance would have asked for the tree up front!

 

[Smoke]

But what kind of soil should i use?

Thats tricky. Some start with a cow, and some start with a horse, your choice....

 

[Smoke]

I have a clump tree with 4 trunks!!! Off with my head!!!
But actually I have had suggestions from people to take one of the trunks out... so it is out there in the collective bonsai mind.

This is a hold over from Asian Culture and has nothing to do with the west, so four is OK for you and I.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraphobia

For bonsai, after five counting is usually looked over in favor of just trunks.

 

[Adair M]

This is a hold over from Asian Culture and has nothing to do with the west, so four is OK for you and I.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetraphobia

For bonsai, after five counting is usually looked over in favor of just trunks.

Yep... Asians are much better at math than we are.

 

[watchndsky]

Yep... Asians are much better at math than we are.

were going to have to send you to diversity training with comments like that.

 

[Smoke]

were going to have to send you to diversity training with comments like that.

I was pounding mochi while I typed that....