Bjorn Apprenticeship

[Oerc201]

Nope, I really believe what I said.

I think there's two things that really rub me the wrong way:

1) the unpaid trial period.

2) the way that this totally American dude wants someone to act like he's the emperor.

Maybe that's the norm in Japan.

Laughable in fkin Tennessee.

I love this comment . I also thought the unpaid period sucked. Imagine he doesn’t like you and 2 months in he is like see ya later.

 

[andrewiles]

No opinion on what's legal or appropriate. And while I've never met him I'm sure he's an awesome and extremely talented guy.

The thing that bothers me is that while the labor requirements are clearly defined the benefits to the applicant are not. It's assumed and implied that working at his nursery will be worth those 5 years of your time. A great experience for sure, but there is no committment of instruction from him. He could just ignore you for the entire time and your experience would be vastly less worthwhile. It should be a two way street. This lack of committemnt to the growth of the apprentice stands out to me and, I think, will deter otherwise qualified candidates.

 

[HankDio]

"skilled" ones are. There are so many opportunities out there if you don't make the cut for a paid internship and have no other choice than a unpaid internship, then you just weren't good enough.

I’ll pretend that this wasn’t a passive agressive post and assure you I have a good job in my field now (They even pay me!) but I don’t talk down to others and expect the same in turn.

 

[Hartinez]

holy smokes this thread. Plenty will be deterred no doubt, but I’m certain he will have plenty of applicants. Don’t like it? Don’t apply. Simple as that. When his apprentice is making a modest living as a bonsai professional in 6 years, I’m sure I won’t be the only one to watch his videos.

 

[Oerc201]

holy smokes this thread. Plenty will be deterred no doubt, but I’m certain he will have plenty of applicants. Don’t like it? Don’t apply. Simple as that. When his apprentice is making a modest living as a bonsai professional in 6 years, I’m sure I won’t be the only one to watch his videos.

I will buy Akadama from him lol

 

[Hartinez]

I will buy Akadama from him lol

Sounds like a win win to me.

 

[Maloghurst]

I'm dedicated and a hard worker. Stop generalizing people.

I’m not generalizing anyone.
If your a hard worker great! Everyone is not.
If your not dedicated to pursuing an apprenticeship with Bjorn then what I said stands.

 

[Texasbonsai98]

I’ll pretend that this wasn’t a passive agressive post and assure you I have a good job in my field now (They even pay me!) but I don’t talk down to others and expect the same in turn.

HA, if you think my comment was a shot at you, you must have very thin skin. You've been fairly passive aggressive on this thread so not sure why you're trying to take a moral highroad

 

[Shogun610]

I think the right person will get this opportunity, and Bjorn has great judgment, and is a genuine person. I also think this would be great for someone younger… OR that person who has the will power to “say f my hamster wheel / corporate life job , let’s take a chance, I love bonsai , let’s pursue something I love” … I’m alittle envious of whomever will get this and I think deep down everyone here feels this way to a degree…... We all have our own lives and commitments and it’s exciting to know that this is out there. Again, I’m so thankful that I have my own little “f this , let’s pursue bonsai besides just as a hobby and sacrifice my own time on something I’m passionate about” this is vastly a different level so good luck to the future apprentice.

 

[TN_Jim]

Six pages on this wow. Kinda ridiculous

I know how impossible it is to hire people who really want to work outside with plants. To work, outside, for 8+ hours a day, in the weather, being filthy, sometimes or often completely exhausted, good or bad. Amazing
People think they want it and realize they don’t, not good or bad, just reality.

Weed the chaff

Whomever takes this internship, I’m jealous, good on you. Give your best and pretty sure that even if you become an accountant, you will never regret it. Much blessings and joy to you!

 

[Mikecheck123]

Six pages on this wow. Kinda ridiculous

I know how impossible it is to hire people who really want to work outside with plants. To work, outside, for 8+ hours a day, in the weather, being filthy, sometimes or often completely exhausted, good or bad. Amazing
People think they want it and realize they don’t, not good or bad, just reality.

Weed the chaff

Whomever takes this internship, I’m jealous, good on you. Give your best and pretty sure that even if you become an accountant, you will never regret it. Much blessings and joy to you!

You know who makes a LOT more than Bjorn's intern?

The Central American immigrants who mow my grass. Good alternative for people who can mow well.

 

[chicago1980]

Volunteer
Internship
Apprentice

Good luck and may it benefit you, whoever you are.

 

[Maiden69]

I imagine Bjorns requirements are similar to what he went through as an unpaid apprentice for what, 5-7 years at Eisei-en. I think I recall he even stayed on an additional year as a thank you after he was technically finished, but I could be wrong.

He was not unpaid. He received around $500 a month for food and an apartment room. That was when he arrived there, so quite a few years back.

Bonsai apprenticeship in Japan is not easy. It's a military lifestyle from what I get on both Bjorn and Ryan's stories. And that is why so many people that go to Japan don't make it past the 1-2 first years. I think in one of Bjorn's videos he states that even the Japanese apprentices have a hard time completing the apprenticeship because of this.

I hope he is able to find somebody reliable, I don't think it is going to be easy in this new era of office work, cyber-everything, don't want to get my hands dirty.

 

[HorseloverFat]

Building the Creative Economy

A revolutionary blueprint for the future of work.

arts2work.media

It seems like THIS company is trying to keep traditions alive..

WHILE adjusting the "unpaid apprenticeship MODEL" for CURRENT times..

Pretty Interesting.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

In My State Washington:
Employers can also pay some workers less than the state minimum wage, including: Minors 14 to 15 years old (no less than 85% of minimum wage). Workers who meet certain criteria (see below). Jobs that are exempt from the Minimum Wage Act. Employers can apply for a sub-minimum wage certificate in the following areas: Certificated on-the-job learners (no less than 85% of minimum wage). Certificated student workers and student learners (no less than 75% of minimum wage). Certificated workers with disabilities. Certain apprentices.
L&I warns employers that, while they may cover expenses by way of a stipend or reimbursement, they categorically cannot compensate their interns with regular pay. Essentially, according to L&I, there is no such thing as a paid intern in Washington.
As for that stipend, Washington employers considering any form of internship program are advised to work with experienced counsel to avoid running afoul of the state’s wage and hour laws.

You seem to have removed the middle of your quote. Here... I fixed it. This is the part you accidentally deleted:

“But wait,” you say. “I know there are paid interns in Washington. I was a paid intern in Washington!” Perhaps, however, you were actually an employee with the job title of “intern.” Regardless, the point for employers is this: if you want to pay your interns a wage or salary, feel free to do so. Just don’t make the mistake of thinking you can pay a wage or salary less than the law requires for other employees.

 

[rockm]

Everyone talking about “unpaid internships” for college students and people right out of college. I don’t have much experience of how it was in the past, but I can say certainly that almost every single skilled internship today is paid and paid decently well. Seems like some of y’all are living far in the past.

Despite your protests, unpaid internships are a thing. Almost half are unpaid...They can be controversial, but they're hardly uncommon...

More than 40% of interns are still unpaid—here’s the history of why that's legal

Some argue unpaid internships provide valuable opportunities, while others critique the practice as an excuse to exploit free labor.

www.cnbc.com

And they can lead to a lot down the road

Self-made millionaire: Get an internship and don't worry about the money

Real estate mogul Sidney Torres suggests you focus on finding the field of your dreams.

www.cnbc.com

 

[HorseloverFat]

?

The Central American immigrants who mow my grass. Good alternative for people who can mow well.

Ummm...

So they Crossed an Ocean to flee their old country., just because their "queen" wouldn't let them practice "faith-based" religion..

Show uP, and Murder, Rape, segregate EVERYTHING/one.. and TOOK IT OVER???

...what kind of "Immigrant" is that?

The easiness that that statement Rolled off your tongue... it's alarming.

Not even fighting.. just makes me feel bad for HUMANS oppressed.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Despite your protests, unpaid internships are a thing. Almost half are unpaid...They can be controversial, but they're hardly uncommon...

I have been staying out of this conversation because it was clear people were not understanding my point. At the risk of annoying everyone, I'll try to restate it a different way:
(1) There are Federal rules for what defines an internship, apprenticeship, and an employee.
(2) Just because you call a position an "internship" doesn't make it one - it has to meet the guidelines established by the Feds (not the states).
(3) Even if you have an established internship program, if you treat the individual as an employee, they become an employee in the eyes of the law and will have employee protections.

Within that context I absolutely agree that there are unpaid internships - because there are. However there are also tons of companies who thought they were offering unpaid internships, but were actually treating their "interns" as employees, and they got burned. And no, I didn't Google it.

(P.S. I want to make sure people don't think I am commenting on Bjorn's program. This is a general statement about Federal labor law. Take it for what it is... I didn't create it )

 

[HorseloverFat]

I have been staying out of this conversation because it was clear people were not understanding my point. At the risk of annoying everyone, I'll try to restate it a different way.
(1) There are Federal rules for what defines an internship, apprenticeship, and an employee.
(2) Just because you call a position an "internship" doesn't make it one - it has to meet the guidelines established by the Feds (not the states).
(3) Even if you have an established internship program, if you treat the individual as an employee, they become an employee in the eyes of the law and will have employee protections.

Within that context I absolutely agree that there are unpaid internships - because there are. However there are also tons of companies who thought they were offering unpaid internships, but were actually treating their interns as employees, and they got burned. And no, I didn't Google it.

(P.S. I want to make sure people don't think I am commenting on Bjorn's program. This is a general statement about Federal labor law.)

This is something I just learned too.. whilst reading that Arts2Work link that I shared in #114.. and makes sense.

Especially when I think of the Internship Positions offered within the local government.

So unless it's real loosely defined, like our hypothetical Shoe-making family we discussed, internship/apprentice is basically "Junior Employee".

I said in the VERY beginning.. that MOSTLY westerners who'd come from "comfort" would, most likely, be the ones with "issues"..

I, personally (I've stated my positive feelings in (more)full earlier, so no need to backtrack too much).. crap! lemme start over.

I, personally, feel this apprenticeship to be a HUGE learning opportunity, AS WELL AS a FIRM set of 'climbing boots' for advancement in the Bonsai World.

It IS, a sacrifice.. a challenging journey which would be greatly and gratuitously rewarded... so... NOT FOR EVERYONE.

Not I, I'm a sick old guy with a family..but definitely a very challenging opportunity, If you like that type of thing. (I do)

 

[TN_Jim]

You know who makes a LOT more than Bjorn's intern?

The Central American immigrants who mow my grass. Good alternative for people who can mow

Who? Well we’re pretty sure it’s you. Stand up and give yourself an ovation. Great work, you’ve done big. Is a high five or a low five more proper for stating something that has nothing to do with the op’s assertion or the inability to cut one’s own grass given your valued time and means.

Oh, but to have a Central American immigrant who would dare cast off your very own beloved lawn and foolishly seize upon such exploitation as Bjorn’s garden, BJORNS, such ignorance and toil. One would be completely MAD I say! Mad to the quick! Mad to the heart of it all!!!

For shame & loss…