Bjorn Bjorholm Speaks Out On Hedge Pruning

[Smoke]

I got a chuckle out of Ryan back tracking here about pruning trees. He goes into great detail about hardening off. Then gets asked a question about keeping internodes and leafs small and then tells everyone what he just said about not pruning till after the cuticle that it's possible to cut before cuticle to keep things small but that there is a grey area. The grey area is where I have always pruned my trees to. Thats the whole nutshell about pruning trees radically, knowing when to take alot, and knowing when to back off.

Will a person possibly ruin a tree or kill it learning? Possibly...
Will you learn a new trick that will only make your trees better, most assuredly.

About mid way in the video

 

[Smoke]

I've yet to find any article about plant physics that talks about the removal of leaves before the cuticle is formed that would be detrimental to the health of the tree under reasonable watering husbandry we afford our plants. I have yet to read any information on the plant being weaker or in a deficit that Ryan talks about. The way I read it, and this is a real problem with bonsai because most writings on horticulture have to do with plants in nature and not groomed plants at home, is that with reasonable care no harm should come to a plant if leaves are reduced during the cuticle building period. The way I see it is the plant now has less to do with the reduced foliage mass, and will be better equipped later when the new foliage is present after what was left has achieved it's cuticle.

That should be the end of this hardening off crapola.....I can say that cause I been doing it for ten years with absolutely no ill effects and only superior results.


Reduces Water Loss
A primary function of the leaf’s waxy cuticle is to reduce water loss through the leaves, which is particularly important in arid deserts with little rainfall or Mediterranean climates with seasonal rainfall. Plants such as Adam’s needle (Yucca filamentosa), which grows in U.S. Department of Agriculture plant hardiness zones 5 through 10, use the cuticle in tandem with their stomata to conserve water. Stomata are pores on the leaf surfaces that open and close to regulate water and gas exchange. Yucca opens its stomata at night to receive carbon dioxide for photosynthesis and it closes its stomata during the day to reduce water loss through transpiration. The cuticle helps seal in the water, making the leaves virtually waterproof.

 

[MichaelS]

Ryan....... He goes into great detail

Iv'e tried but I can't listen to him. Why use 10 words when you can use 50?....

 

[Smoke]

Iv'e tried but I can't listen to him. Why use 10 words when you can use 50?....

I can't watch him either. Just as I was about to click off it, he brought up the hardening off bull shit. Then went into good detail about it. I did find that part very interesting, not that I learned anything new, but that a question led to his backtracking about the fifteen minutes he had just spent telling everyone to not touch the tree at this time, but that It was ok to prune it as long as you know where and when to stop. I have even heard Walter Pall talk down to people about how we should not do things to our trees that professionals do because they are professional and trained to do it. What a load of horse shit.

 

[sorce]

How do you know this?

I know it develops and refines in the same year because you develop a lot of branches in summer, to be refined in winter.

I know timelines because Walter posts long progressions regularly.

Bjorn also states multiple times, "this tree has been in training for".

You realize this isn't your RHtSW thread right?

Ever think your method is different, and maybe, like 80% of people here, YOU don't understand Walter's?

Or did you teach him when he was in daipers?

You'll never get (as in, catch me up) me. And I hardly appreciate the conversation!

Go ahead, ask me how I know I clicked on Walter's Blog and not someone else's! It's because I can read! Then the math is only a little more complex than 100+9 equals you need an air conditioner and Mango y Leche Ice Cream Bar!

Sorce

 

[Smoke]

Walter posts
Sorce

Well at least this place has a master of the "Virtual Bonsai" category.......

whenever you wish to talk about "real" trees give me a shout out...

 

[markyscott]

”Iv'e tried but I can't listen to him. Why use 10 words when you can use 50?....”
“I can't watch him either...”

Being a good teacher is difficult and good communication skills are very important. But there are some other characteristics of bad teachers I’ve observed over the years. I’ve noticed that bad teachers:

1. Enjoy making others feel ignorant. They don’t miss many opportunities to point out when others are wrong. Nor do they miss a chance to show others how much they know. Eventually, no one speaks up around them – and the worst teachers and leaders are too unaware to recognize they are often the problem.
2. Are arrogant. They always talk about themselves and any sense of humility they display seems to be forced. They love to point out weaknesses in their peers as a way of inflating their own sense of self-worth.
3. Are overly critical. Not only do they criticize others, but, even more importantly, they almost never praise others. The only time you hear from them is when they want to correct something. And they often do it in the most demeaning and belittling manner with words meant to humiliate, not to teach.
4. Think they already know everything they need to know. Because they have already “put their time” into learning the subject matter, they feel like they have already learned all that is necessary to teach. They do not see any value in continued learning or appreciating what others have to offer.
5. Are impatient or dismissive when asked to repeat information or explain concepts they feel their students should already have grasped.
6. Don’t recognize growth or change in their students. They remember all the mistakes and struggles the student has made in the past and they don’t allow them to move past them. They just constantly bring up past failures until the student just kind of gives up.
7. Are jealous of the attention given to other teachers they feel are less experienced then they are.

Not thinking of anyone in particular - just pointing out that I‘ve observed many bad teachers with great communication skills.

 

[sorce]

Well at least this place has a master of the "Virtual Bonsai" category.......

whenever you wish to talk about "real" trees give me a shout out...

I don't know how you managed to talk shit, and hide it so well that not only the quote didn't come up, but when I clicked here afresh it went right to Scott's post!

That's how real good teachers get the last word!

Girl.



Who you playing for?

Sorce

 

[caerolle]

How about we make a rule that every time a member posts something argumentative about bonsai, they also have to go log at least an hour working in their own garden.

How about they have to go work in the garden of the person with whom they are arguing?

 

[leatherback]

How about they have to go work in the garden of the person with whom they are arguing?

I guess I will have to get @markyscott to start an argument with me!

 

[wrcmad]

Iv'e tried but I can't listen to him. Why use 10 words when you can use 50?....

I find it hard to believe that you actually tried to listen to somebody else.

 

[Smoke]

Hedge pruning - a gathering of shoots "pruned" to a specific point

Traditional methods - "pruning" one shoot at a time to a specific point

Thats all the difference between the two.

Like mowing a lawn which Walter pointed out, you can crawl around on your hands and knees and prune each blade of grass or you can walk behind a contraption that can cut a 20 inch swath as fast as your can walk. Your choice. I don't understand the disdain for even talking about each method. Choose the one that works for you and move on. There is not much to talk about here, both are just means to an end. One more aggressive, but in the right hands, a huge time saver.

I for one, would rather see your results and see if it matches your rhetoric. As soon as there is a challenge with trees everyone shuts the hell up. Post em up. Put your trees where your rhetoric is. If it's a deciduous tree, post them with leaves and without, we know which one tells the tale.

 

[Smoke]

”Iv'e tried but I can't listen to him. Why use 10 words when you can use 50?....”
“I can't watch him either...”

Being a good teacher is difficult and good communication skills are very important. But there are some other characteristics of bad teachers I’ve observed over the years. I’ve noticed that bad teachers:

1. Enjoy making others feel ignorant. They don’t miss many opportunities to point out when others are wrong. Nor do they miss a chance to show others how much they know. Eventually, no one speaks up around them – and the worst teachers and leaders are too unaware to recognize they are often the problem.
2. Are arrogant. They always talk about themselves and any sense of humility they display seems to be forced. They love to point out weaknesses in their peers as a way of inflating their own sense of self-worth.
3. Are overly critical. Not only do they criticize others, but, even more importantly, they almost never praise others. The only time you hear from them is when they want to correct something. And they often do it in the most demeaning and belittling manner with words meant to humiliate, not to teach.
4. Think they already know everything they need to know. Because they have already “put their time” into learning the subject matter, they feel like they have already learned all that is necessary to teach. They do not see any value in continued learning or appreciating what others have to offer.
5. Are impatient or dismissive when asked to repeat information or explain concepts they feel their students should already have grasped.
6. Don’t recognize growth or change in their students. They remember all the mistakes and struggles the student has made in the past and they don’t allow them to move past them. They just constantly bring up past failures until the student just kind of gives up.
7. Are jealous of the attention given to other teachers they feel are less experienced then they are.

Not thinking of anyone in particular - just pointing out that I‘ve observed many bad teachers with great communication skills.

That's because students are ignorant and stupid. Teachers have earned the right to be those things. And when the ignorant and stupid person spends enough time with the learned, he too will move off to become a teacher, just like Ryan did. The nice thing about America is you don't have to patronize those you disagree with. If you wish to patronize that person because of technique, then that's something you will just have to put up with. But there is no reason to post a laundry list of how you feel about people. Just makes you seem petty.

You wish to see a difference in a teacher, pay him to spend just a day with you, and you alone. Its a whole different game....if you can afford it. If you can that makes this whole post understandable.....

 

[LanceMac10]

 

[MichaelS]

I find it hard to believe that you actually tried to listen to somebody else.

You just can't help being a smart arse can you? Where you born that way or did you have to work at it?

 

[peterbone]

I've just finished reading Michael Hagedorn's new book - Bonsai Heresy. I couldn't help thinking how it goes against a lot of things that I've read from Mr Pall such as the use of hard water, chemical fertilisers, avoiding akadama. When I started out with bonsai I liked Walter's advice because of his no nonsense approach which made everything seem easier, but I now see that things can be a bit more complex if you're aiming for a high level of refinement. I can't help feeling that many of his methods and his use of a very naturalistic style are a result of having a very large collection, which isn't true of most of us. I don't think anything he does is wrong, but it may not apply for everyone.

 

[wrcmad]

You just can't help being a smart arse can you? Where you born that way or did you have to work at it?

 

[MichaelS]

.

 

[MichaelS]

 

[wrcmad]

.