Black Pine Root Over Rock

RyanFrye

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I purchased this Shohin black pine last year. I changed the original planting angle to an upright position and I've been fumbling around with it since. I still have a "LOT" to learn about black pine care and training so any suggestions would be great.
 

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RyanFrye

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Should I prune the strongest candles now?
 

RyanFrye

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Here's an update on this one. A few days ago I thinned out the needles and cut them back to get more light into the branches. What do you think?
 

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ericN

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i know nothing about black pines, one thing i do know is that you have a nice start with that root over rock. i like the direction your going.

eric
 

RyanFrye

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i know nothing about black pines, one thing i do know is that you have a nice start with that root over rock. i like the direction your going.

eric
Thanks eric! I'm still learning about JBP too...there are so many schools of thought out there it's difficult to interpret what is best for my zone.

When I first got it the guy I bought it from started it from seed and placed it on the rock soon after. Unfortunately he had it growing as a Semi-cascade. To me this wasn't suitable for what the flow of the trunk line was "saying" to me. When I repotted it I removed part of the root ball and tipped it up in the position it is now, the rest of the rock that had been in the soil is now at the back of the tree. Unless I can find a way to break part of the rock off I don't know if it will be able to fit into the size pot I eventually want to put in....any ideas on how to break rock?
 

darrellw

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any ideas on how to break rock?
How easy it is will depend largely on what kind of rock it is. If you are going to break it off in an area that will be hidden, covered or buried, I would start with a masonry bit and drill holes along where you want to break it. If it doesn't break off in the course of drilling the holes, then either insert something in the holes (like a screwdriver) and see if you can pry it apart. You could also fill them with water if it freezes where you are in the winter, or put dry wooden plugs/wedges in the holes, then add water to cause them to expand.

Just noticed you are in Florida, so maybe the freezing idea is out :).

Another idea, again depending on the rock, and the shape where you want to remove is a big pair of pliers. If it is a thin area, you can likely crush/break it away.
 
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RyanFrye

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How easy it is will depend largely on what kind of rock it is. If you are going to break it off in an area that will be hidden, covered or buried, I would start with a masonry bit and drill holes along where you want to break it. If it doesn't break off in the course of drilling the holes, then either insert something in the holes (like a screwdriver) and see if you can pry it apart. You could also fill them with water if it freezes where you are in the winter, or put dry wooden plugs/wedges in the holes, then add water to cause them to expand.

Just noticed you are in Florida, so maybe the freezing idea is out :).

Another idea, again depending on the rock, and the shape where you want to remove is a big pair of pliers. If it is a thin area, you can likely crush/break it away.
Thanks for the input darrell. I get a pic of the section of rock I'm referring to so you can have a better idea of what I'm faced with.
 

RyanFrye

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Here's an update on this little pine. Last week I pruned all of the weak candles which was all of them accept for one. I'll prune that strong one after next week.

It looks really pitiful right now, but I'll post an update in a few weeks with the new growth. It may be a little early to candle prune if you want short needles, but I'm really more concerned with ramification at this point and don't necessarily want the needles to be as short as possible...not yet.

I also re-wired and re-placed some of the branches into slightly different positions.
 

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John Ruger

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That's a really nice tree Ryan. I've never worked on evergreens, but this is something to give me second thought to take a crack at.

Good luck with it and please keep us posted on the progress!
 
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Ryan,

You have something real nice going there.

I wouldn't tamper with that rock. What if it cracks in the wrong direction? You will loose what has taken a good number of years to establish.

You are in Fla. Be concerned about over watering, root rot. Even up here in NC I have had to put tents over my pine pots because of the almost daily rain we are getting. I grew up around near St.Pete, you could set your clock by the daily afternoon rain showers there.

You may find it difficult to get shorter needles because of the humidity that the tree will absorb through the needles.

I'd just work around what ever part of that rock that you find objectionable. Once you take it off you darn sure can't put it back later. Live with it a few years and develop the tree, then consider it again.

And you have done quite a bit of work on it for the time of year it is, let it rest till next year before you do anything else to it. Don't over stress it.
 

rockm

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This working into a nice little root over rock BP--which aren't common.

I'd leave the rock alone for the next five years or so:D. Let the roots settle in, expand a bit and mature, THEN start worrying about how to get it into the pot.
 

RyanFrye

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Ryan,

You have something real nice going there.

I wouldn't tamper with that rock. What if it cracks in the wrong direction? You will loose what has taken a good number of years to establish.

You are in Fla. Be concerned about over watering, root rot. Even up here in NC I have had to put tents over my pine pots because of the almost daily rain we are getting. I grew up around near St.Pete, you could set your clock by the daily afternoon rain showers there.

You may find it difficult to get shorter needles because of the humidity that the tree will absorb through the needles.

I'd just work around what ever part of that rock that you find objectionable. Once you take it off you darn sure can't put it back later. Live with it a few years and develop the tree, then consider it again.

And you have done quite a bit of work on it for the time of year it is, let it rest till next year before you do anything else to it. Don't over stress it.
Thanks Mac. I've decided to work with the rock instead of changing it by breaking it up. It's just too risky and I've actually changed the front slightly since the first pics were posted last year. So it may actually fit into an appropriate sized pot now. Things seem to work out when I just take my time to decide :)

The thing about humidity making the needles longer is interesting. I've never heard of that. Can you explain how that happens?

As for it resting...The only other thing I plan on doing to it this year is removing the old needles some time in October.

Oh and this pine was started about 3.5 hours south of me in the Ft. Pierce(?) area. It's still in the same mix the grower had it in. Which is a very free draining mix. I try to water only about once to twice a week when it isn't raining. It's been raining almost everyday this week so it's really wet right now...but as you know rain and watering are always a concern here. I have another pine that is in pure turface and I'm experimenting with how this will work. This will be the second year that it is in that soil and it seems to be doing great. The roots are starting to grow out the bottom of the pot and I water it about every day to every other day.
 

misfit11

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Nice little JBP, Ryan! Keep us post on its development.:)
 

october

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This is a very nice start...You used the phrase "it looks pretty pitiful right now"... Nope..... It looks very necessary.

I look forward to updates on this tree.. It is pretty well structured for such a youg tree...

Rob
 

RyanFrye

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This working into a nice little root over rock BP--which aren't common.
Nice little JBP, Ryan! Keep us post on its development.:)
Thanks guys!



This is a very nice start...You used the phrase "it looks pretty pitiful right now"... Nope..... It looks very necessary.

I look forward to updates on this tree.. It is pretty well structured for such a youg tree...

Rob
Rob you're right, "necessary" is a much better way to say it. I can't really take much credit for the structure. The basics were there when I bought (even though it was a semi-cascade at the time) which goes to show how important proper training from the start is. The guy that started it pretty much let me steal it too... $45.

This tree inspired me to buy some 2 year old JBP seedlings at start training them right from the get go. But that's for another thread....
 
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