Bonsai is for Morons?

[Chris Johnston]

Chris, you have yet to make a single post in this thread that has anything to do with the subject matter.

Stop following me, it's getting kind of creepy, next thing you know you'll be serching through my garbage and stealing underwear out of my clothes hamper.




Will

Real mature duh.

Once again you prove you don't have the maturity to debate anything. No wonder no one wants to play with you long. You are like the car dealership that always has to bring in new people because no one will ever buy a car from you twice.

 

[Anonymous User]

Real mature duh.

Once again you prove you don't have the maturity to debate anything.

Again, you speak of anything but the topic here, you have yet to post a single word on the subject. Instead your obsession with me dictates your actions, get over me Chris, you're not my type and you're hardly the one to speak of maturity....why don't you take off that Dolly Pardon costume, kick off those high heels, and go find someone else to stalk?

Or at the very least, debate the topic, not me, if you are capable.

You are seriously distrurbed Chris.

 

[bwaynef]

The masters of the last century in Japan were farmers and gardeners

...

Al's biggest mistake was assuming that bonsai came from Asian farmers and gardeners, nothing could be further from the truth. (This is where knowing the history of bonsai helps the modern day artist.)

and then you went on to make the false statement that "...The masters of the last century in Japan were farmers and gardeners..."

**I hope that the following isn't construed as an attack on any individual. I'll try to keep my commentary solely on what was posted and not bring up (other than to properly attribute the quotes) who said what, ...or what they were wearing when they wrote it.**

Al qualified his statement regarding farmers and gardeners to the extent that there is no reason to believe that he thinks they are to thank for creating the art. He suggests merely that the people who mastered the craft last century were farmers and gardeners. (This is where condescending tones come back to bite you.) The idea that the "gardeners and farmers" statement could be taken to mean that bonsai was created/realized/discovered by gardeners and farmers involves adding to what he said in a meaningful yet incorrect way.

 

[Attila Soos]

Al Keppler recently made the following statement in another thread.

"There is nothing intelligent about the art of bonsai. Creating bonsai art is not the domain of the intelligent.

I think that Al means here: bonsai is not a strictly intellectual exercise. In other words, it is not a "left hemisphere" function (left-brain functions are analytical, logical, mathematics, language). It is rather a "right hemisphere" exercise (such as intuitive, holistic, contextual, creative).

If that is what he meant, I agree with that.

Creative people are not always high on standard IQ tests. Rather, they are all over the spectrum.
It is a very simple reality. No need to fight about this. There a much more worthy causes to fight for.

 

[Anonymous User]

Al qualified his statement regarding farmers and gardeners to the extent that there is no reason to believe that he thinks they are to thank for creating the art. He suggests merely that the people who mastered the craft last century were farmers and gardeners. (This is where condescending tones come back to bite you.) The idea that the "gardeners and farmers" statement could be taken to mean that bonsai was created/realized/discovered by gardeners and farmers involves adding to what he said in a meaningful yet incorrect way.

I agree with you, basing my rebuttal more on his comment that bonsai was not the domain of the intelligent more than his comment about farmers and gardeners, I focused on that.

I think Walter covered modern bonsai quite well, it is the domain of all who seek it, rich, poor, intelligent, or challenged.

Creative people are not always high on standard IQ tests. Rather, they are all over the spectrum.
It is a very simple reality. No need to fight about this. There a much more worthy causes to fight for.

Again, agreed.



Will

 

[bwaynef]

I agree with you, basing my rebuttal more on his comment that bonsai was not the domain of the intelligent more than his comment about farmers and gardeners, I focused on that.

**Again, not a personal attack.**

Interesting then that you consider his supposed faux pas regarding gardeners and farmers as the most important ...while contending on several occasions that he was wrong :

Al's biggest mistake was assuming that bonsai came from Asian farmers and gardeners, nothing could be further from the truth. (This is where knowing the history of bonsai helps the modern day artist.)

I simply posted the actual truth, which is that bonsai was first practiced and refined by intellectuals, not farmers and gardeners.

You said that "...The masters of the last century in Japan were farmers and gardeners..." I said that, to the contrary, it is the intellectuals that we have to thank for the art of bonsai. Iy (sic) was you who claimed that farmers and gardeners owned the domain of bonsai, not intellectuals.

and

... and then you went on to make the false statement that "...The masters of the last century in Japan were farmers and gardeners..." Implying that it was these farmers and gardeners that were responsible for bonsai as we know it and as such, intelligence was not necessary for the creation of bonsai. Which led directly to this thread and the title thereof.

 

[Anonymous User]

He was wrong in saying that the art of bonsai over the last century was the domain of farmers and gardeners. I stand by my words you quoted.

 

[JTGJr25]

What this all comes down to is everyone has an opinion and no one of you is right or wrong. Facts can be construed in any way that one wants to formulate an opinion and thats just how things are. I watched the presidential debate in class today and thats exactly what they do to prove a point. Each one of you has a good argument and has pleaded their case. How about we leave it at that.

Tom

 

[Hans van Meer]

Creative people are not always high on standard IQ tests. Rather, they are all over the spectrum.
It is a very simple reality. No need to fight about this. There a much more worthy causes to fight for.

So true, I drool a lot wile styling my trees. Yet I am the only one who shows a Bonsai in this thread so fare!
Regards,
Hans.

 

[JTGJr25]

I love that tree Hans, I read about it on your blog and how many pics you took of it lol


Tom

 

[Hans van Meer]

I love that tree Hans, I read about it on your blog and how many pics you took of it lol


Tom

Thanks Tom,
yes that was a special afternoon. Everything came together in the right time, a day later most of the leaves fell off!
Hans.

 

[PeterW]

Smiles

Thanks Tom,
yes that was a special afternoon. Everything came together in the right time, a day later most of the leaves fell off the next day!
Hans.

Thanks for adding a happy moment to an otherwise very sad thread.
Have a lovely day Hans, your tree and your timing are both perfect.
Kind Regards
Peter.

 

[Anonymous User]

So true, I drool a lot wile styling my trees. Yet I am the only one who shows a Bonsai in this thread so fare!
Regards,
Hans.

Yeah but, are you a intellectual?




Will

 

[Ashbarns]

Anyone who has the foresight to imbibe Heinekin is a supreme intellectual and of course the trees to back it up. Hi to you Hans.

Ash

 

[Attila Soos]

Hans,

Showing your hawthorne, you just ruined an othewise perfectly depressing thread! Now that you introduced an glimmer of hope, I am confused.

 

[Hans van Meer]

Hans,

Showing your hawthorne, you just ruined an othewise perfectly depressing thread! Now that you introduced an glimmer of hope, I am confused.

I know, I'm bad!
Hans.

 

[FourMileMarc]

There are 2 halves of our brain.

The right being the creative side, art, hanging sheetrock, etc.

The left being the intellectual side, math, rote learning, ect.

Intelligence comes from both in two different forms. I have seen some engineers do some pretty stupid things like try to take their 60 foot tall douglass fir down with a step ladder instead of calling me. Of course I always have to bail them out and climb above the pie cut!

No that makes me a moron!

 

[Asus101]

He was wrong in saying that the art of bonsai over the last century was the domain of farmers and gardeners. I stand by my words you quoted.

I dont think he was wrong. From basic history we learned that even china and japan had a class system. People who had money could buy schooling as well as other nice things (We know that bonsai was a sign of wealth). However those nice things they owned (be it bonsai, horses, hunting dogs ect) where taken care of and trained by "peasants".

 

[bretts]

By Chris
This is why I will never try to have a discussion with you. You took a very good statement by Al and twisted it beyond recognition. He actually was making a point you yourself have made, that it is creativity (you would say talent) rather than intellectual deliberation that makes great bonsai.

Instead of engaging a very good point, you decided to bring it over here and foolishly twist everything he said so that you could continue this charade. Why is it that you keep this up? Have you been missing the opportunity to play the victim?

There are things you have printed that could easily be debated. But debate depends on honest presentation of views, not twisting the opponent's words beyond recognition because you think someone is scoring. The only thing this shows is that you are not confident enough in your own views to state them and defend them without resorting to semantic tricks.

Who wants to take the time to argue with that? Crawl back into your hole.

By Will
Chris, you have yet to make a single post in this thread that has anything to do with the subject matter.

Stop following me, it's getting kind of creepy, next thing you know you'll be serching through my garbage and stealing underwear out of my clothes hamper.

I have given up on this thread at page 2. I think Chris is dead on the topic that Will dragged from another thread as he seems to think it will change something?. What is creepy is Will thinks we don't see his semantic tricks. The scariest moron is one that believes his own lies.

Oh and I have an average inteligence so I have a bet either way.

 

[Vance Wood]

I have given up on this thread at page 2. I think Chris is dead on the topic that Will dragged from another thread as he seems to think it will change something?. What is creepy is Will thinks we don't see his semantic tricks. The scariest moron is one that believes his own lies.

Oh and I have an average inteligence so I have a bet either way.

So you are saying I'll take a shot and then try to have it both ways; depending on who shoots back?

This is the problem with the Internet; It is easy to take pot shots, make accusations and so on without knowing the people you seem to have chosen to make enemies of. Is this really what you want?