Andrew Robson
Shohin
Mike, nothing to be sorry for. I respect that you speak your opinion, and I welcome it!
Bonsai on a Budget
- Thread starter Andrew Robson
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Andrew Robson
Shohin
My apologies. What I meant by serious was being competitive in national shows. I understand that not everybody has the same idea of being serious. I think you are serious and passionate Mike, and I like that about you!
Andrew Robson
Shohin
Also, you can grow and collect great material. But it takes a lot of time and skill to do right. It also takes good soil for the trees to develop fast. And it takes copper wire, which Gremel sells for $160 a set.
I created this thread to offer ways to cut costs in bonsai, not start fights. I want everyone to succeed in their efforts, whether it's having trees to win the artisans cup or having trees to make you smile.
I created this thread to offer ways to cut costs in bonsai, not start fights. I want everyone to succeed in their efforts, whether it's having trees to win the artisans cup or having trees to make you smile.
j evans
Omono
Hats off to everyone doing the sport the way that they enjoy it. If you spend more than you should you will loose some enjoyment, besides don't you get a little more enjoyment out of a tree that you take time to find, dig and refine than one that you purchase already done?
carp
Chumono
Expand on why. Why copper?
It's one thing to offer an opinion, but another to state what is necessary.
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
Because that's what he's taught. Only copper. Boon.
I use copper because I get it for free. It's all I've ever used.
I thought people used copper because it's a soft metal? I also use it because it's free for me but I have to strip it out of rubber covering. ... so I use any thing if I'm not feeling up to the task. But I'm sure there's more to it then just because that's what he taught. ...?
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
I don't strip the insulation off. I burn it off when I anneal it. That makes it real soft. Then when you put it on it hardens back up and holds the branch in place.
And that's why he uses copper. Nothing more. Plus he can use smaller diameter copper wire to hold branches.
Andrew is a good kid and he does know bonsai. He has been exposed to some of the best trees and teachers in America. He already has some very nice trees. And will only get better and better.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Best thing about copper now,,,,,,
You could borrow some coated wire from dudes hanging on to it for when it goes back up. Recycle. $
Tell them you'll bring it back stripped.
Copper goes back up, your trees are set, they get more $ cuz it's clean and the price went back up.....
Win win win.....
Bonsai for free!
Sorce
You could borrow some coated wire from dudes hanging on to it for when it goes back up. Recycle. $
Tell them you'll bring it back stripped.
Copper goes back up, your trees are set, they get more $ cuz it's clean and the price went back up.....
Win win win.....
Bonsai for free!
Sorce
Attachments
Anthony
Imperial Masterpiece
Seth said -
"To create bonsai requires dedication, time and imagination.
To buy bonsai requires money."
____________________________________________________________________________________
Well he did give you the answer guys - [ seeds, seedlings, cuttings, airlayers ] dedication, personal time, and looking at actual trees, drawing and retaining the memory [ imagination ].
And you can also do Buy Bonsai .
As to copper wire, just melt, re-draw [ jeweller friend ] and re-use. As we do. .
But of course there is always Ling Nan - clip and grow, works on pines as well - ha ha ha.
Seth is turning out to be a very decent guy, hard working ------- I like that !
Back to the clay cleaning, next raw shrinkage and fired shrinkage tests, then body vitrification for cone 08 - 983 deg.C
Good Day
Anthony
"To create bonsai requires dedication, time and imagination.
To buy bonsai requires money."
____________________________________________________________________________________
Well he did give you the answer guys - [ seeds, seedlings, cuttings, airlayers ] dedication, personal time, and looking at actual trees, drawing and retaining the memory [ imagination ].
And you can also do Buy Bonsai .
As to copper wire, just melt, re-draw [ jeweller friend ] and re-use. As we do. .
But of course there is always Ling Nan - clip and grow, works on pines as well - ha ha ha.
Seth is turning out to be a very decent guy, hard working ------- I like that !
Back to the clay cleaning, next raw shrinkage and fired shrinkage tests, then body vitrification for cone 08 - 983 deg.C
Good Day
Anthony
klosi
Shohin
When I first decided I want to go bonsai, it was also because I thought it was a cheap hobby. I thought that growing bonsai is not expensive because trees grow by themselves in nature, no money tossed in their way.
I had a feeling that making bonsai is work of poor and patient people. Yet I learned that bonsai have always been a thing of wealthy and rich individuals.
I learned that later when a local bonsai pro told me his prices for bonsai lessons and courses. I was angry. I found out that he is still cheap compared to other bonsai pros around the world. I was even angrier.
Later I saw that these are masters and teachers that dedicated all their lives to bonsai and learning the methods and techniques. So I was calmed. I knew that my learning curve would be much higher right now if I would take those courses and I would know a lot more, have much nicer trees. Still...
I like the way I'm practicing bonsai, collecting wherever I can, planting seeds, destroying and dismantling old household appliances to get copper wire etc. My last google search was 'can I reuse pumice?'.
I praise the internet, kind and helpfull individuals (many on this forum) that share their knowladge and experiences for free. The knowladge is out there and easier to find and obtain than before and I can't wait ot learn as much as I can, to get the experience, so I can give back to the community. I took so much, gave so little.
I had a feeling that making bonsai is work of poor and patient people. Yet I learned that bonsai have always been a thing of wealthy and rich individuals.
I learned that later when a local bonsai pro told me his prices for bonsai lessons and courses. I was angry. I found out that he is still cheap compared to other bonsai pros around the world. I was even angrier.
Later I saw that these are masters and teachers that dedicated all their lives to bonsai and learning the methods and techniques. So I was calmed. I knew that my learning curve would be much higher right now if I would take those courses and I would know a lot more, have much nicer trees. Still...
I like the way I'm practicing bonsai, collecting wherever I can, planting seeds, destroying and dismantling old household appliances to get copper wire etc. My last google search was 'can I reuse pumice?'.
I praise the internet, kind and helpfull individuals (many on this forum) that share their knowladge and experiences for free. The knowladge is out there and easier to find and obtain than before and I can't wait ot learn as much as I can, to get the experience, so I can give back to the community. I took so much, gave so little.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
CWTurner
Omono
My hint #2. If you live near a busy old-fashioned cemetery (the ones that have/allow upright headstones and plantings) look for their dump pile as see what gets tossed for maintenance reasons and... ahem, fresh digging reasons. Ask before you take anything. Better yet get friendly with the maintenance people and you may get a call when something gets dug. Works for me.
I've never purchased a "bonsai" and don't intend to.
CW
A Random User
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I get my copper from Julian Adams of Adams Bonsai
http://www.adamsbonsai.com/adamsbonsi2013_008.htm
His prices are fair and an awesome guy! I usually get 2 sets of his introductory specials, and including taxes, priority shipping, it tops out at about $120 and arrives in two days...
I go through a hell of a lot of wire! Due to the fact that I am always wiring up a ton of material, so these two specials last me about a month, month in a half... but for most probably would last the most part of a year if not more.
He sells a really nice wire caddy for copper wire that is hand made out of oak, dove tailed and all, works really well, looks great, and is built to last!
http://www.adamsbonsai.com/adamsbonsi2013_003.htm
Obviously one does not need to use copper... main arguments for doing so are that your trees look nicer, due to the fact that half as thick of copper wire does the same job as aluminum. So, the wire is hardly viable in comparison.
Where I personally have really found the difference besides this... is in it's strength. If one is really doing work with alot of tension, like doing heavy bends and guy wires... the aluminum has a tendency to stretch, especially over time, and in the hot sun that we have here. Also, when twisting the wires to establish the guy wire, aluminum is more capable of breaking, and usually will... not to cool loosing a branch you are trying to bend, because the wire broke and the branch snapped back into place.
You would just have to use thicker aluminum wire... which here again looks a little unsightly.
http://www.adamsbonsai.com/adamsbonsi2013_008.htm
His prices are fair and an awesome guy! I usually get 2 sets of his introductory specials, and including taxes, priority shipping, it tops out at about $120 and arrives in two days...
I go through a hell of a lot of wire! Due to the fact that I am always wiring up a ton of material, so these two specials last me about a month, month in a half... but for most probably would last the most part of a year if not more.
He sells a really nice wire caddy for copper wire that is hand made out of oak, dove tailed and all, works really well, looks great, and is built to last!
http://www.adamsbonsai.com/adamsbonsi2013_003.htm
Obviously one does not need to use copper... main arguments for doing so are that your trees look nicer, due to the fact that half as thick of copper wire does the same job as aluminum. So, the wire is hardly viable in comparison.
Where I personally have really found the difference besides this... is in it's strength. If one is really doing work with alot of tension, like doing heavy bends and guy wires... the aluminum has a tendency to stretch, especially over time, and in the hot sun that we have here. Also, when twisting the wires to establish the guy wire, aluminum is more capable of breaking, and usually will... not to cool loosing a branch you are trying to bend, because the wire broke and the branch snapped back into place.
You would just have to use thicker aluminum wire... which here again looks a little unsightly.
Paradox
Marine Bonsologist
I use copper for pines, and junipers because it helps alot to keep those wirey, bendy branches in place. I would use it on any conifer with those characteristics.
I use aluminum for everything else because copper isnt necessary for those and copper can and will damage maples because the bark is much more delicate on those.
I use aluminum for everything else because copper isnt necessary for those and copper can and will damage maples because the bark is much more delicate on those.
KennedyMarx
Omono
I think Carp/Seth nailed it. To add to that, time is money. If you're trying to scrape by and don't have much of a budget for your hobbies, attempting bonsai at an advanced level is going to be more difficult for you compared to if you had excess income to spare. I don't see anything wrong with either route, but choose the right route for your goal. Spending $10 on a one gallon nursery juniper isn't going to get you a 100+ year old collected juniper full of deadwood, but it will help you hone your skills for the day you do get a gnarly yamadori.
Lol!!!
Stacy, you and I had one of those posting wars/ arguments about copper vs aluminum about 3 years ago on this forum, back when you were posting using another name.
Glad to see you finally see things my way! I told you all the things you just posted, and you told me they were all BS!!
I DON't want to start another war. But, you owe it to yourself yo try Jim Gremel's wire. I have used both Adams and Gremel's wire, and Gremel's is better and more consistent. Julian's is good. It's just that Gremel's is a little bit better.
I have spoken to each of them personally and discussed wire. I didn't get any "secrets" (I didn't ask), but I can tell you that Gremel heats his in his kiln. Adams heats his in an open fire. Adams heats his until the color looks right, Gremel is more scientific: heating at a certain temperature for a certain amount of time.
Smoke
Ignore-Amus
Gremel also does not quench his...
Didn't know that. Adams does. He told me. I forgot that little detail.
Paradox
Marine Bonsologist
Is quenching good or bad?
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