Cascade Pot Ratios

[jaholmes]

Hey everyone,

I have a question regarding the specific ratio/dimensions for Cascade or Semi-Cascade bonsai pots. For other pots, a general rule of thumb seems to be the heigh should be approximately equal the trunk thickness and the width should be approximately 2/3 the heigh of the tree.

My question is what "rules" or ratios are helpful in determining what height, or perhaps more importantly width, look good with what size trees?

Thank you for your help!

 

[Adair M]

Just so you know, those tall cascade pots are out of style now. The preferred style now is to use pots that are "cube" shaped rather than the really deep, tall ones.

Why?

Those tall pots make it really hard to repot. They're hard to water properly. The top soil gets dry, but the soil is wet at the bottom.

When in training, wire the "cube" pot onto a concrete block stood on end. Use a stand when showing. You may need to put a fishing weight in the pot if the foliage of the cascade is heavy.

 

[jaholmes]

Very good to know -- now that I think of it, I have seem more "cube" pots being used for cascades.

Thank you so much for your response and help!

 

[Adair M]

A couple examples.

 

[jaholmes]

The visuals are exceptionally helpful! I can see why this is also more appealing that the 'traditional' cascade pots. Thank you again!

 

[Adair M]

Its really not for the visual, it's for the health of the tree.

 

[jaholmes]

I meant, thank you for posting the pictures of the trees -- it helped me to better understand what you had explained!

 

[edprocoat]

Just so you know, those tall cascade pots are out of style now. The preferred style now is to use pots that are "cube" shaped rather than the really deep, tall ones.

Why?

Those tall pots make it really hard to repot. They're hard to water properly. The top soil gets dry, but the soil is wet at the bottom.

When in training, wire the "cube" pot onto a concrete block stood on end. Use a stand when showing. You may need to put a fishing weight in the pot if the foliage of the cascade is heavy.

Ok, what kind of fishing weight could you use to counter balance a cascade pot? Unless the base was wide enough in the first place to support the plant's weight it would really make no difference, unless you count lifting the pot.

ed

 

[edprocoat]

A good ratio would be 1 cascade pot for each cascade tree .

ed

 

[jaholmes]

A good ratio would be 1 cascade pot for each cascade tree .

ed

Haha -- I was thinking that's where I had been going wrong! It all makes sense now

 

[timetravel_0]

Ok, what kind of fishing weight could you use to counter balance a cascade pot? Unless the base was wide enough in the first place to support the plant's weight it would really make no difference, unless you count lifting the pot.

ed

A variety of surf weights and trolling weights would do so very nicely.

 

[edprocoat]

A variety of surf weights and trolling weights would do so very nicely.

Ok, so explain it to me then. Take a 4 inch base pot and put 100 lbs. of weight in it, put a 40 lb. tree leaning off to the side and it will pull the pot over. The width of the base is what adds the stability. Add to that the fact that lead will poison not only the person handling but the trees too plus the water run-off poisoning and it makes me wonder why this would even be considered, let alone given as advice ?


ed

 

[Adair M]

Ed, you are too much! This is SO out of character for you! You are the KING of alternative materials for bonsai!!!!

Sometimes I think you live in an alternate universe!!! (Kidding, of course!)

Both the trees I pictured will stand on their own on the concrete block or bonsai stand. Adding additional weight on the far side of the pot adds to the stability during the show. They are wired on the block so they're not knocked over by wind, rain, cats, and clumsy owners.

You only have to add the weight when it's at the show. Just like missing for a show, it's temporary. There are alternatives to lead. Tungsten is heavier. I used it for my son's Pinewood Derby cars.

We do need "the center of gravity" to be over the pot. Not hard to achieve.

 

[Adair M]

Ok, so explain it to me then. Take a 4 inch base pot and put 100 lbs. of weight in it, put a 40 lb. tree leaning off to the side and it will pull the pot over. The width of the base is what adds the stability. Add to that the fact that lead will poison not only the person handling but the trees too plus the water run-off poisoning and it makes me wonder why this would even be considered, let alone given as advice ?


ed

Ed,

Please post a photo of a 140 pound bonsai living in a 4 inch pot!

 

[kakejiku]

Maybe I am looking at this from a different and unpopular perspective....and will try to look at this from a display perspective. Yes, it is from a Japanese style of display as well, so some will not agree with the concept.

Probably in caring and growing for your tree, it is better to go with a cube pot for the reasons that have been discussed in the thread.

However, when looking at the classification of the tree styles, Kengai, Hankengai and Fukinagashi stylings are all informal in classification. Rectangular and Square pots are Formal and Semi formal classifications. Most are displayed with taller stands (that are round, which is an informal shape) to accentuate the cascade features of the tree.

When I see a square or rectangular pot, on a round base, it is just not harmonious to my eye.

So the long answer is, at least one of the rules in the display style I have spent time studying is
to have the rim of the round pots align with the rim of the stand on which it rests. Providing visual focus on the bonsai...

I hope that was clear...

 

[Adair M]

Cascades can go in round pots, no problem.

I used the term "cube" very loosely. That is, the current style has the width of the pot about equal to the height, instead of having a very tall, narrow pot. It just so happens that the two trees I have pictures of have square pots.

I am having a stand made for my cascade. I would appreciate any suggestions.

 

[edprocoat]

Ed,

Please post a photo of a 140 pound bonsai living in a 4 inch pot!

That would be tough to do, I was using extremes to make a point which is true. I have seen tall cascade pots with 6 inch base and Bonsai in them that need to be supported as the plant hanging down will topple the pot with a breeze. They are semi stable, able to stand on their own yet incapable of withstanding a slight jar or breeze. The plant weight ? , guessing maybe 8-10 lbs.

Not really out of character for me, I do not use lead fishing weights. Tungsten is more pricey yet safer for all involved. Seriously, lead will adversely affect plant growth and can kill plants too same as humans.


ed

 

[Adair M]

Ed, I never said to put lead in the pot. I said "fishing weight". Even then, that's only temporary for a show. For everyday, the pots are tied to concrete blocks for stability.

Perhaps if you don't want to weight the pot for the show, you could use a little double sided sticky tape to affix the pot to the stand.