john blanch
Yamadori
This is my largest crataegus monogyna
Collecting Hawthorn
- Thread starter Javaman4373
- Start date
This is my largest crataegus monogyna
john blanch
Yamadori
The trunk is hollow. I raised the root level to give it better taper, utilising the root on the right. Needles to say it was a big tree when I dug it up.
john blanch
Yamadori
john blanch
Yamadori
This picture was taken several years ago.
john blanch
Yamadori
This is a young red flowering Hawthorn,
Crataegus laevigata 'Paul's Scarlet'
from a nursery in Ireland. I've cut it down this year to begin re-growing, it's already got flower buds on it.
Javaman4373
Shohin
I did cut back one root that had no contact with the soil and so was not feeding the tree. I am looking for suggestions on what to do with the root stub, which is above soil level. Judging from the foliage that the stumps put out I would expect there is good feeder root development and eventually the large roots can be safely cut back to permit potting in a reasonably sized pot. I am still undecided whether to just put this in our landscape where it can be viewed and worked on, or aim to develop it as a bonsai. There are a number of options with this tree. It is actually two trees embraced together, so it would be possible to separate them. I think the right trunk wouldn't look that good alone. It could be a root over rock setting though. The embrace is what appeals to me about the two trees. The large root going to the right with the sprout on it belongs to the rt trunk, not the left one. Well for now, I will just let it grow.
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Cajunrider
Imperial Masterpiece
Why not try an underneath V notch and pull the root down into the ground and let it grow feeder roots? I have done that successfully with May hawthorn.
Javaman4373
Shohin
Interesting.That probably would have worked better before I shortened that root. There is not much room to work on the underside, because it is right above a large root coming from the rt. trunk that wraps around the left trunk. Maybe by starting with a drill hole that would let a small saw into the root it could be done.
Cajunrider
Imperial Masterpiece
You can use a wire saw.
BobbyLane
Imperial Masterpiece
hard to tell, maybe I would nibble away at it with knob cutters to get it flush with the soil or i'd remove it completely and maybe make a uro. hard to tell with these pics. your call mate.
Javaman4373
Shohin
What is a uro?
BobbyLane
Imperial Masterpiece
a small hollow
Javaman4373
Shohin
I went with the small hollow (uro). I also reduced a couple of the large surface foots that were not feeding the trees to any significant extent. I think the tree would even fit in a reasonably sized bonsai pot now.
BobbyLane
Imperial Masterpiece
Ok but again, looking at it now, I might have just buried the tree deeper. Sometimes its tricky to give people advice on here because usually the pics are really poor and from awkward angles. Which is why I ended up saying your call.
So if mine I would probably have planted it this deep, so that root might have been useful for the aesthetics of the whole base, after shaving it down a bit. Id also chop low. you didnt post back pics, but i can just about make out another root that looks like it would also be better deeper in the soil.
So if mine I would probably have planted it this deep, so that root might have been useful for the aesthetics of the whole base, after shaving it down a bit. Id also chop low. you didnt post back pics, but i can just about make out another root that looks like it would also be better deeper in the soil.
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Javaman4373
Shohin
OK, I see your point. I just put it in the grow box to go a season and see if it recovers from the collection and grows more feeder roots. If transplanted to a pot, I guess I would still have the option of setting it deeper. The back side is a bit bizarre,that root going to the rt looks pregnant. It is what it is.
BobbyLane
Imperial Masterpiece
Ah I see, with collected trees you would want to protect the roots as much as possible, a lot of folk tend to bury deep first then uncover/reveal more later when the plant becomes established. A bit like when you sever a layer for the first time. Your call, you have the plant in front of you and you know how much root is under the soil.
Rather than disturbing again, I would maybe top dress with more soil and S moss.
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Javaman4373
Shohin
Yes, looking back at the precollection photos (post 28), I see that most of those roots were above the soil before the digging it out. That was a factor in not burying them in the grow box as well. If large surface roots like on these two trees are covered with soil and S. moss, is there anything else one can do to promote new root growth from them? Like scarring the bark.
BobbyLane
Imperial Masterpiece
Looks like they were all sitting at soil surface. all of them would have had finer roots attached going into the soil. You have set the tree slightly higher than it was at collection. This will make it a little harder for new roots to regenerate from the roots youve cut. I imagine theres still some roots attached to the big roots underneath, strong growth periods will help to generate new roots from the stubs.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Not only is burying the nebari deeply important to esthetic, but also the health of the collected tree initially. Whenever I dig a bigger tree, I make certain the nebari is at least under two inches of soil in the training container. That's because exposing the root crown in the summer can dry out and kill portions of it. As time passes, and the tree's root system develops and it is repotted, the nebari can be exposed bit by bit. At this point esthetics are the last thing on the list for this collected tree. Health trumps everything else and will for the next couple of years. everything you do to it for 24-36 months should be about keeping it healthy. Don't make design plans, don't implement designs, don't try to reduce leaves or increase ramification. You do those when the tree is healthy and strong after it has recovered completely from collection...
Javaman4373
Shohin
The hawthorn I collected in 2022 and planted in the ground in the spring of 2023 to let it thicken the trunk, did just that. See post #6 in this thread. The leaves were just starting to turn color a little now, so I collected it. I did chop some off the long top leader and a few branches that would not be used, otherwise I left as much foliage as possible. If the tree survives next spring after this collection, I have a decision to make about a further chop. The reason being that the main trunk grows out the back side and has little taper. I have marked in red and black two potential future chops and wonder what people think the best approach would be. If the tree back buds after a chop at the red mark, a new leader might develop that would put taper into that section. Otherwise, a chop at the black mark would face to the rear and use that good branch as the new leader.
