Smoke
Ignore-Amus
In this thread, I hope to show some pictures of some collected material, which I deem pre-bonsai. Some of the pieces have had some work done to them, and some have had nothing done to them. With the exception of one juniper, I have dug all of them. They were dug from the deserts of Mojave on trips with Harry Hirao. I am not one to dig haphazardly. If I don’t see a bonsai in the material, I don’t dig it. I think this should be the norm when collecting all material. Suffice it to say, I feel that these were pre-bonsai when I dug them, and I feel that each passing year will only serve to enhance their ability to be great bonsai.
In the recent thread, “Is it safe yet?” Vance made this quote:
“So it could be said that a Yamadori has achieved its form due to the forces of nature and time; time being the one factor man cannot impart. However the Yamadori is an accident of nature and a triumph of nature both and the same. Yamadori is an exercise in situation survival. As far as the traits needed for its survival as a bonsai it is sadly lacking in everything except an external form that pleases the eye of the person envisioning its transformation into a bonsai. In the cultivational aspects the Yamadori is sadly inferior to the prebonsai and yes, even the nursery tree. It is its outside appearance that makes it worth the effort. With the exception of pocket trees, most Yamadori take many years of work before they even qualify as prebonsai by many's interpretation of that concept.”
I might ask, “ Is this a blanket statement for all collected stock? Does this quote have more to do with your locale? Did you feel differently while you lived in California?
As far as adaptability, everything I have dug as collected material for bonsai has shown many better attributes for survival than nursery grown material. For one thing collected stock begins its bonsai life with nearly no root system period. It is pretty much grown from scratch and most everything that is deemed not useful for bonsai is removed. During this period, early in its fight for survival, the stock is seen as more “expendable” so techniques are used that might no be otherwise done on a nursery tree. I have used a shovel to square a bottom or even a chainsaw to remove large chunks of wood just to get it into a training container. My goal at this time is if it dies, I tried. If it lives, I have succeeded in getting a good start on a good root system, compact and close to the trunk. Overall a win win. We start them from this negative root stage in free draining bonsai soil, or as I do with collected material, pure sand. Fiberous root systems build very fast in pure sand and it is advocated by many in the nursery trade for building neat tidy compact root structures.
Many years of work? All bonsai take many years of work. They take many years of work till they are (in your words) finished. I do mean that in the most final sense of the word. I have never stopped working on my trees, so I have no idea what this has to do with bonsai in any context. I think I know what you mean though. I think you mean the time it take to get from nursery stock , to pre-bonsai, to finished piece that requires only maintenance. Am I close here? If this is correct than once again who cares. We work on them for our life or the plants life whichever expires first. It’s a non-sequiter. I don’t buy or collect my trees based on how quickly I can finish them. Sure I wish to have a more finished bonsai that I can exhibit with, and so buy more worked over material to start with. This is a no brainer as far as I am concerned. There are many that disagree, and that’s OK.
As far as collected material taking longer to get to pre-bonsai than nursery material. I post these pictures as at least one idea that that myth just does not hold water. None of these trees except one (which I purchased at auction, no. 0407) are over four years old. I would challenge anyone to post pictures of nursery material that can come even close to the trees here in four years. Also note that many of these trees have trunks near 6 and 7 inch calipers. ( note that a couple of these trees are only 18 months since they were dug, 0107, 0307, 0507)
I have posted a poll, I would find it very intriguing to find how a sampling of members here might choose a tree if they were at a nursery that offered collected junipers for sale. Leaving price out of the equation since I feel that skews many people from looking at higher priced material, how might the forum choose?
In the recent thread, “Is it safe yet?” Vance made this quote:
“So it could be said that a Yamadori has achieved its form due to the forces of nature and time; time being the one factor man cannot impart. However the Yamadori is an accident of nature and a triumph of nature both and the same. Yamadori is an exercise in situation survival. As far as the traits needed for its survival as a bonsai it is sadly lacking in everything except an external form that pleases the eye of the person envisioning its transformation into a bonsai. In the cultivational aspects the Yamadori is sadly inferior to the prebonsai and yes, even the nursery tree. It is its outside appearance that makes it worth the effort. With the exception of pocket trees, most Yamadori take many years of work before they even qualify as prebonsai by many's interpretation of that concept.”
I might ask, “ Is this a blanket statement for all collected stock? Does this quote have more to do with your locale? Did you feel differently while you lived in California?
As far as adaptability, everything I have dug as collected material for bonsai has shown many better attributes for survival than nursery grown material. For one thing collected stock begins its bonsai life with nearly no root system period. It is pretty much grown from scratch and most everything that is deemed not useful for bonsai is removed. During this period, early in its fight for survival, the stock is seen as more “expendable” so techniques are used that might no be otherwise done on a nursery tree. I have used a shovel to square a bottom or even a chainsaw to remove large chunks of wood just to get it into a training container. My goal at this time is if it dies, I tried. If it lives, I have succeeded in getting a good start on a good root system, compact and close to the trunk. Overall a win win. We start them from this negative root stage in free draining bonsai soil, or as I do with collected material, pure sand. Fiberous root systems build very fast in pure sand and it is advocated by many in the nursery trade for building neat tidy compact root structures.
Many years of work? All bonsai take many years of work. They take many years of work till they are (in your words) finished. I do mean that in the most final sense of the word. I have never stopped working on my trees, so I have no idea what this has to do with bonsai in any context. I think I know what you mean though. I think you mean the time it take to get from nursery stock , to pre-bonsai, to finished piece that requires only maintenance. Am I close here? If this is correct than once again who cares. We work on them for our life or the plants life whichever expires first. It’s a non-sequiter. I don’t buy or collect my trees based on how quickly I can finish them. Sure I wish to have a more finished bonsai that I can exhibit with, and so buy more worked over material to start with. This is a no brainer as far as I am concerned. There are many that disagree, and that’s OK.
As far as collected material taking longer to get to pre-bonsai than nursery material. I post these pictures as at least one idea that that myth just does not hold water. None of these trees except one (which I purchased at auction, no. 0407) are over four years old. I would challenge anyone to post pictures of nursery material that can come even close to the trees here in four years. Also note that many of these trees have trunks near 6 and 7 inch calipers. ( note that a couple of these trees are only 18 months since they were dug, 0107, 0307, 0507)
I have posted a poll, I would find it very intriguing to find how a sampling of members here might choose a tree if they were at a nursery that offered collected junipers for sale. Leaving price out of the equation since I feel that skews many people from looking at higher priced material, how might the forum choose?
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