Extreme Bonsai

[Mellow Mullet]

Ok, been at the beach for a few days, maybe I should have read more.

Here, in Mobile, we have heat and humidity. I move most everything so that they get evening and morning sun. Those that get sun all day have sphagnum moss on top and do well with it. My cypress stay in tubs of water which buffer the heat and keep them wet.

 

[Mellow Mullet]

Well this is the hand we are being dealt weather wise this week. Should be interesting.View attachment 149676

That's hot!

 

[Maloghurst]

At one time the scientific consensus was that that the world was flat and if you sailed too far West you would fall off the edge of the Earth. At one time the scientific consensus was that the human body could not take the strain from going faster than 25 MPH. Scientific Consensus claimed that the Moon was made of green cheese. Scientific Consensus claimed that the Earth was the Center of the Solar System, that the Earth was the center of the Universe, that the Earth was only six thousand years old. Just because something has Scientific Consensus does not mean it is either accurate or correct, it just means that a bunch of people believe the same thing and have been able to cow those who do not into not complaining about it. Four-Hundred years ago you could excommunicated for not believing what the Scientific Consensus spouted by the Church said. Today you get labeled in any number of ways, that could cost you respect or even employment.

Vance is saying is that if he wants to believe the world is flat that is his god given right and no one can tell him any different.

 

[AZbonsai]

Good grief.

 

[Maloghurst]

So---- what difference to the discussion of bonsai does it make if I disagree with you about climate change, or are these things part and parcle of the pre-requisits for participation in bonsai in general and this site inparticular. On both elements, bonsai and this site, I have been around a lot longer than most of you smatter and more scientifically sophisticated members. It is funny to me how I can spend hours detailing a lot of things about bonsai, and share it here ungrudgingly and generate but few comments. Let me mention one little thing about the environment or politics and the wrath of the intellectuals comes down on me from people I seldom hear from like a Monsoon storm. None of you are going to change my mind about almost anything.

This is because you are an respected expert on bonsai so why would anyone argue.
You are not an expert on climate. so when you regurgitate some bs that the fossil fuel industry fed you. It is our duty to speak up.
But I can tell you are also a good person just like most of my family. It's just unfortunate that greed and corruption is able to influence so many good Americans.

 

[milehigh_7]

"Political bullshit"? It is scientific consensus!

Lol science is not about voting! Lol! Science is observable, measurable and repeatable or it's not science it's conjecture. Now back to weather stories. I don't have a lot of time in preparing for 120F on Wednesday.

 

[bonsaichile]

Lol science is not about voting! Lol! Science is observable, measurable and repeatable or it's not science it's conjecture. Now back to weather stories. I don't have a lot of time in preparing for 120F on Wednesday.

No, but a scientific consensus means that most of the scientific community agrees in a certain way to interpret the data, and that the experiments that yielded that data have been replicated by other scientific teams as well.

I am sorry about your extreme weather. I hear is going to be life-threatening in your area! Please, take care and stay hydrated.

 

[milehigh_7]

I wasn't trying to insult. I was merely trying to point out the fact that it has been Republicans who have chosen to willfully ignore the science, only for political and economic reasons. By choosing to vilify science and scientists, they put us all at risk. And that is not only insulting, it is downright irresponsible, to say the least.

The only "scientists" that are not Bill Nye that believe that clap trap actually were paid by the Obama admin to say so. What's more there is pretty clear proof that the "data" has been faked. You go on and get your learnin from CNN and Bill Nye...

 

[milehigh_7]

No, but a scientific consensus means that most of the scientific community agrees in a certain way to interpret the data, and that the experiments that yielded that data have been replicated by other scientific teams as well.

I am sorry about your extreme weather. I hear is going to be life-threatening in your area! Please, take care and stay hydrated.

Have you ever done a scientific experiment that you collected data from and submitted it at a collegiate level at least? I highly doubt it or you would know that's not how it works.

I should qualify that by saying, that's not how it works unless government grants are on the line. It's not how real science works though.

 

[Potawatomi13]

You clearly don't understand the first thing about history of science. You cannot compare any of those things, basically because they respond to different epistles (Foucault) or scientific paradigms (Kuhn). In short, to say that scientific consensus today on climate change is comparable to the pre-scientific notion that the Earth was flat or at the center of the universe (note: PRE-scientific notions) is just a display of ignorance. Republican ignorance, I might add

To quote Vances obviously greater wisdom than yours:Bovine Scatology! The comparisons he makes are not only applicable but true as well concerning the lie of climate "change".

This is because you are an respected expert on bonsai so why would anyone argue.

You are not an expert on climate. so when you regurgitate some bs that the fossil fuel industry fed you. It is our duty to speak up.

Apparently neither are you.

 

[Potawatomi13]

It is PSEUDOscientific consensus!

 

[Vance Wood]

If you sell a lie long enough and loud enough from a position of respect, power, or fear; everntually people will believe it.

 

[just.wing.it]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie
Same old same old.

 

[StoneCloud]

 

[Velodog2]

I'm not really on a mission to change anyone's mind regarding climate change, and I don't even think doing so really matters any longer. The damage is already done, we are just waiting for the results to kick in and it will happen the way it will happen regardless of what anyone believes. Economic factors will drive change, at least mostly so in this country, and it is a big duh that renewables will win as technology advances because duh sunlight, wind, etc is free. Why else would all the big petroleum companies be investing so heavily in it.

That said, what is amusing to the point of painful hilarity is to watch sooooo many people right here on this forum who 1) think they are accurately assessing global climate change by looking out their window, or 2) cherry-pick, or listen to others who are cherry-picking small subsets of data to support a particular conclusion, and 3) are contemptuous of researchers and science in general who have huge amounts of data, the ability to analyze it, and have the training and knowledge to understand what it means. I assume these same people would naturally not believe a cancer diagnosis for a persistent cough because they've coughed before.

Forgive my contempt of you in this matter, if you like, or not, as either way you deserve it. I still value your opinions and insight regarding bonsai!

 

[miker]

Not trying to get too deep in this topic on climate change but I did want to share some things:

I believe the planet is going into a phase cooling phase. The numbers are all around us. It is almost mid June and it has been pretty cool in most of the world compared to how it typically has been in June (with the expected few exceptions). I am no scientist, but this is what I see.

Even in the last few years that I have lived here in FL I've noticed winter getting cooler every year here. Yes summers are hot but have you also noticed there has been a slight shift on our (created by humans) calendar? The seasons do not "start" and "end" as usual when you take a look at actual daily temps. The seasons have kind of shifted.

Even NASA has recorded and attests that the south pole for example has been getting colder...for years......

http://www.express.co.uk/news/scien...NG-six-years-Arctic-north-pole-climate-change

So all I know is the whole "global warming" propoganda are making so many people rich, who are laughing at the "peasants" who say "I'm doing everything I can to stop global warming"

A "movement" or catchy title does not make something real to me at least.....I believe what I see. And I've seen all over the world a general decline in temps.


Again I am not taking sides, but I really think that these things are important to think about when it comes to climate.

I lived in Orlando, Florida until September 2016 and overall the winter temperatures were close to normal, or a tad warmer than normal the past 5 or so years. Yes, there were some chilly spells from November to March, but that is nothing new at all. December 2015 was ridiculously warm and this past December and January were also much, much warmer than average(looking at the data). Even Atlanta averged low 60s for highs and low 40s for lows for all three winter months combined this past winter. That is ridiculously mild for them and comparable to inland North Florida winter averages.

What has absolutely become much milder temperature wise (I am referring to Orlando here, but the same is true for many/most large urban areas) are the seasonal extreme lows, as in, the expected coldest temps in a given season(or in a given decade, or 20 year period). The urban core rarely hits the freezing mark anymore and has not been below the mid 20s since 1989 (up until which time going below the mid 20s happened at least once or twice per decade). This increase in the extreme lows on the coldest nights is obviously due mostly(or completely) to the urban heat island effect.

Now that I live in Wyomissing, PA(near Reading) I keep track of the climate data closely here too. Much of this spring was cooler than normal while the past winter was much milder than normal(coldest temp was 8F versus around -1F being the average coldest for a season, and the coldest high temp was 23F). The bonsai clearly loved it as everything was extremely vigorous and healthy. I particularly notice that the local Japanese maples are going gang busters so I think they appreciate the massive number of chill hours a mild winter here can provide them for proper rest without the extreme damaging cold to set them back.

 

[Vance Wood]

I'm not really on a mission to change anyone's mind regarding climate change, and I don't even think doing so really matters any longer. The damage is already done, we are just waiting for the results to kick in and it will happen the way it will happen regardless of what anyone believes. Economic factors will drive change, at least mostly so in this country, and it is a big duh that renewables will win as technology advances because duh sunlight, wind, etc is free. Why else would all the big petroleum companies be investing so heavily in it.

That said, what is amusing to the point of painful hilarity is to watch sooooo many people right here on this forum who 1) think they are accurately assessing global climate change by looking out their window, or 2) cherry-pick, or listen to others who are cherry-picking small subsets of data to support a particular conclusion, and 3) are contemptuous of researchers and science in general who have huge amounts of data, the ability to analyze it, and have the training and knowledge to understand what it means. I assume these same people would naturally not believe a cancer diagnosis for a persistent cough because they've coughed before.

Forgive my contempt of you in this matter, if you like, or not, as either way you deserve it. I still value your opinions and insight regarding bonsai!

This last sentence is indicative of the kind of discourse we are experiencing and the ending results that have manifested themselves during this last week with the base ball shooting. You wrote: Forgive my contempt of you in this matter, if you like, or not, as either way you deserve it. The left has sunk to this level of looking on those with whom they disagree with contempt. I don't look on you with contempt even though I don't agree with you, why is that?

 

[Gustavo Martins]

I do not want to go too much into detail here, but most of you only grasp the surface about climate change and its consequences and how it interacts with other climacteric phenomena.

1. you should all clarify you minds. Most of you are talking about weather, not climate. Completely different things.

2. Yes climate change also predicts that weather will be more unstable (cool days in summer, hot days in winter). Storms will become more frequente and so will be other climacteric extremes (e.g. droughts, floods, etc).

3. There are other phenomena that interact with climate change. We are currently entering in a negative NAO (North Atlantic Oscillation) phase which means cooler temps in most of the northern hemisphere. Does this mean that the overall mean temperature over 30 year cycles is decreasing? NO. It just camouflages it for a few years.

4. Scientists have long passed the phase they discussed whether climate change is happening or not. That's a fact. Plenty of evidence. Scientists are now more concerned about the impacts and how these can be mitigated.

5. My country does not produce oil. Still the same science.

6. Yes. Climate is dynamic, and naturally so. It has changed in the past without the human help. It wiped nearly all life on Earth. But it has never changed as fast. We have also never experienced such high concentrations of CO2 in the atmosphere. But does this mean that climate change is not happening and that we, humans, are not affecting it?

Disclaimer: I am a scientist. I do investigate the effects of climate change on marine ecosystems. I am not supported by fuel or anti-fuel companies. I have no political bias, at least not relevant for the USA context.

Am I hoping to change the minds of those who do not "belief" in climate change. No. My purpose is that those who might read this also know that there are other views.

 

[Gustavo Martins]

And please: make more bonsai. it helps mitigate climate change.

 

[AZbonsai]

And now the world is represented in the debate with Gustavos post. I am out! If I could delete the thread I would. I am sure I am not the only one on the site who considers Bnut as an escape from the political "discourse" being hurled around these days. Sorry fellow Bnutters my apologies. Like if you agree