Extreme Bonsai

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Better be careful about saying that kind of thing. They are liable to show up at your residence in black jump suits, ski masks, clubs and fire.
Thanks for the heads up Vance. I'd welcome the target rich environment.

One of my long time heros, General Chesty Puller was in the Chosin Reservor during the Korean War. Funny that, in the Corps we called it the Frozen Chosin. Anyway, when told that they were completely surrounded by the Comunist Chinese Army said, "Best news I have heard. We can now shoot in any direction and kill those SOB's."
 
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The fact that you replied and completely understand the point of my post says it all. No one knows what the climate will bring tomorrow much less in a month or a year. Al Gore is famous for having said around 2005 that the oceans would all dry up by 2015 and now won't respond to questions about his statement. And further a few months after making that statement he bought a $7 million ocean front house in California. Further, the legitimate climate data confirms that there has only been something like a 0.5 degree change in the average temperature in the last 30 years. Not to mention that if the climate got a couple of degrees warmer all it would mean is that food crops could be grown further north or south than they currently are and would help feed the world with the new tillable land.

Weather is unpredictable. Climate is a lot more predictable. Do you know the difference between the two?

I do not care about what Al Gore did or said. If you do not trust the predictions, at least check what has happened in the last 100 years and compare that to what had happened thousands of years before. It's documented... not predictions.

And as I said before, most of you do not grasp the real problems associated with climate change. YEs, an increase in 1 or 2 degrees, on average, seems little. But that is the average. Have you looked at what happen with variation around the mean, in other words, the extremes? Far more problematic.
Also, where will those species living in polar regions go if it warms?
Also have you thought about potential mismatches? Species are not responding all at the same rate.
What if warming causes plants to grow further north but not bees? no pollination.
What if some animals hatch earlier than their food? starvation
What if flower blooms occur earlier than pollinators hatch?
and so on.

There is now so much compelling evidence from so many areas of the science that denying climate change just feels stupid... sorry.

And yes, we can tackle global problems. Or are you saying that mankind is not clever enough to put some alternatives to fossil fuels... There's plenty of alternatives already. What we are missing is the final kick which has been hampered by those that make their profit from oil and the like.

Do you remember about the ozone hole, caused by the use of CFCs. Problem solved, the hole is still there of course (it will take some time to close), but it is decreasing. Did you change your way of life?

You can keep denying, and the USA seems to be doing a good job at that (at least now). What happens is that everyone around is changing. Hell, the Emirates are using oil money to build green cities and investing on clean sources of energy. China too. USA? Ignore it and you'll be an island in no time...
 

Vance Wood

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Just to point out another often ignore, covered up, and poo pooed fact; the ozone hole existed before the advent of CFC's that are blamed for its existence in the first place. You can put up a bunch of seemingly indisputable facts built on the foundation of a lie and then blame people for being stupid if they don't believe it. Jesus said that a house built on the sand cannot stand (paraphrase). Another inconvenient truth here is that the company that had the patent on the guilty CFC's was faced with the patent running out.

The plot was hatched that outlawed the use of CFC"s altogether so that the parent company could continue to have a monopoly on the industry. That company came up with the alternatives we have today. New patents were granted with no worry about competitions from generic products for at least another 16 years or so.
 
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Vance Wood

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Weather is unpredictable. Climate is a lot more predictable. Do you know the difference between the two?...

You wrote the above, Weather is unpredictable Climate is a lot more predictable. Not meaning to be condescending but it is necessary to state the following: prove it! It is easy for you climate proponents to spout off things like this because no one challenges you, they're too busy trying to prove they're not the idiot you make them out to be. The scientists that disagree with you do not get the funding from the left and are marginalized in the public and in many cases, will lose their little college professorships or teaching gigs. There is no doubt most scientists will agree with this destructive scenario. They don't want their life's work marginalized and their professions taken from them because they don't agree with you.

Then you go one and ask the question: Do you know the difference between the two, meaning Climate and weather? Is this a veiled attempt to accuse some of us of being ignorant dweebs that could not find our own asses with both hands tied behind our backs?
 
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Oh man... you call all our arguments poo poo and you're saying that I cannot blame people for being stupid? Are you not calling stupid ourselves as well?

I do not want you to believe. I want you to see the scientific data and all the evidence and judge it by yourself.

That people make money out of it (regardless of the scenario) does not prove anything. In fact what you just said was that there was this one company that was making money and that that was replaced by another company that is now making money. I do not see how it makes a difference between making money pre or post-CFC ban.

What happened to lamplighters? killed by electric light. Electric light must be an illusion forged by governments to hand the monopoly to others (gas vs electric)...

All science is pushed to be of applied interest and that means money-making. The rationale being that most research is funded to some extent by public money and so scientists should be using that money to do research that "matters" for people and societies. You know, give back what you get. Or are you willing to pay tax money to support some geeks that have an interest on the leg joints of ants that live up in the Himalaya?
 
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I won't be spending more time with this cause it won't make a difference. But I would like to finish my argumentation with the following.

Climate changes... it will always change. It is caused by many factors that include: oceanic currents, biotic processes (e.g. photosynthesis, respiration), variations in solar radiation, volcanic eruptions, as well as human-induced alterations of the natural world.

I think the key here is that you fail to recognize the importance of the latter, using economic arguments to support your claims.

Let's move back to bonsai now shall we? :)
 

StoneCloud

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I have a question that I can't figure out:

If scientists say that weather is unpredictable, and climate even more so........

Then how is there so much proof and predictions on it's direction by those same people?

I would like to add as well that electric light was a direct battle for monopoly and control. It's actually a wonderful historical course of events. :)
 

Vance Wood

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Oh man... you call all our arguments poo poo and you're saying that I cannot blame people for being stupid? Are you not calling stupid ourselves as well?

I do not want you to believe. I want you to see the scientific data and all the evidence and judge it by yourself.

That people make money out of it (regardless of the scenario) does not prove anything. In fact what you just said was that there was this one company that was making money and that that was replaced by another company that is now making money. I do not see how it makes a difference between making money pre or post-CFC ban.

What happened to lamplighters? killed by electric light. Electric light must be an illusion forged by governments to hand the monopoly to others (gas vs electric)...

All science is pushed to be of applied interest and that means money-making. The rationale being that most research is funded to some extent by public money and so scientists should be using that money to do research that "matters" for people and societies. You know, give back what you get. Or are you willing to pay tax money to support some geeks that have an interest on the leg joints of ants that live up in the Himalaya?
Just like I suspected: I'm a stupid dweeb because I do not believe your application of a science you cannot prove.
 
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Just like I suspected: I'm a stupid dweeb because I do not believe your application of economic interests underpinning climate change science you cannot prove.

You see, scientists do not need to prove that climate change is happening. Instead, they just prove that climate is not stable. Principle of falsifiability (Popper 1959). And as you said, climate has always changed...

Popper K (1959) The logic of scientific discovery. Basic Books, New York.
 
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Just like I suspected: I'm a stupid dweeb because I do not believe your application of a science you cannot prove.

Keeling Curve and Vostok ice cores.

Next.

a22664c7be0ed7f7332dc8b87498fbde.jpg
 

_#1_

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First Day Of Summer!

5:02 pm Way home from work :eek:. Downpour w/ high wind. Question is, where was the tree uprooted???
storm1.jpg

5:22 pm After dodging a bunch of downed branches like Froggers sky cleared up like nothing happened.
storm2.jpg

5:45 pm Came home to one incident. I really hope this ailing Crypto will make it. Growing new roots and everything! Rest of the yard looks as if nothing happened.
storm3.jpg
 

Vance Wood

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It'll be alright--- probably, just don't baby the thing.
 

_#1_

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Thanks for the pointer Vance. I did notice one or so small new root broke off.

I will be doing the Smoke triple dose Miracle Gro fert on all the plants this Friday. Would it be safe to fert the Crypto also in your opinion?
 

Vance Wood

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With a liquid fert you should be OK as long as you don't over-do it. A solid I would be a bit more cautious.
 

_#1_

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Thanks again for the pointer! I think I'll give it recommended dose of Miracid. And juice up the rest.
 
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