[First Post] Design Feedback on Tropicals -- Time to CUT?

[bonsai_bingo]

Hello my fellow Nuts

This is my first post, I've been reading and learning from the forum for about 2 years now. I think I've covered all the rookie mistakes (my grow zone is updated and I have pictures).

I'm new to Bonsai as well, I was suckered into a kit back in 2018 (one still lives) and I've been hooked ever since.

Looking for feedback on whether or not it's time to cut these to thicken the trunk or let them grow another season or two:


Tree A - Jacaranda, Black Poui: grown from seed in 2018, I put it in a small pot way too early... but just repotted to the bigger pot this year and it's taken off again
Tree B - Mimosa: this is a seedling I plucked and repotted from my parent's backyard (I will be harvesting seeds from that same tree this year)
Tree C - Flame tree planted in 2020, also switched to a small pot too early and has since been replanted this year
Tree D - Flame tree planted in 2020, also switched to a small pot too early and has since been replanted this year
Tree E - Flame tree planted in 2020, also switched to a small pot too early and has since been replanted this year
Tree F - Flame tree planted in 2020, also switched to a small pot too early and has since been replanted this year


Open to any and all feedback! This is a life long journey for me and I'm excited to master the art of Bonsai.

 

[SWfloirda]

They're your trees, it is really up to you. If you let them grow the trunks will get thick much quicker but they will get very tall and leggy. If you chop now you will most likely develop two trunks and then they will get very tall and leggy, but there will be two of them. They look flexible enough to get some movement in the trunks, just watch the wire as they do grow quickly.
Since you have multiple flame trees maybe chop a couple and leave a couple, see what happens.
I have flame and jacaranda trees grown from seed myself. They can nice looking and fun to work with but it will be very difficult to make any sort of traditional bonsai with them.

 

[penumbra]

If they start to develop twin or multiple trunks it is simple enough to reduce them to one trunk.

 

[Michael P]

I'm not familiar with the species you have. All of your trees have relatively straight and very thin trunks with little branching. This is not useful in most conventional bonsai styles. Unless you have a very specific reason to want them this way, it would be better to wire for some curves and let them grow until the trunks are as thick as you want them. By then the curves will be set and you can decide which direction to take.

One possible use for trees with thin, straight trunks is in a forest. But even for this your trunks need to thicken. Good luck, and keep us updated.

 

[penumbra]

Since you have multiple flame trees maybe chop a couple and leave a couple, see what happens.

This make the most sense to me. ^^^

 

[bonsai_bingo]

If they start to develop twin or multiple trunks it is simple enough to reduce them to one trunk.

makes sense - although I kind of like the one flame with the two trunks -- thanks for the feedback!

 

[bonsai_bingo]

They're your trees, it is really up to you. If you let them grow the trunks will get thick much quicker but they will get very tall and leggy. If you chop now you will most likely develop two trunks and then they will get very tall and leggy, but there will be two of them. They look flexible enough to get some movement in the trunks, just watch the wire as they do grow quickly.
Since you have multiple flame trees maybe chop a couple and leave a couple, see what happens.
I have flame and jacaranda trees grown from seed myself. They can nice looking and fun to work with but it will be very difficult to make any sort of traditional bonsai with them.

Good call, I'll most likely chop two and leave two, then let the jacarda and mimosa grow as is

 

[nuttiest]

I would just let them grow upright for now but in the spring, instead of cutting on these, bend the top down and make the bend where you want a new bud or new apex.
Tropicals are seriously apical dominant and need sun to the top bark to create a new bud.

 

[bonsai_bingo]

I would just let them grow upright for now but in the spring, instead of cutting on these, bend the top down and make the bend where you want a new bud or new apex.
Tropicals are seriously apical dominant and need sun to the top bark to create a new bud.

thanks for the feedback - I'll need to look into a few bending techniques but it conceptually makes sense.

 

[nuttiest]

And keep all bends as low as possible, cascade even so the tree can get ramification the next year.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Just my 2 cents.

First decide roughly how tall you want your finished bonsai. For example I like an 18 inch tall tree. For informal upright styles, common trunk diameter would be 25% to 33.3% of the trees height, so for an 18 inch tree 4.5 inch diameter to 6 inch diameter.

These percentages are guidelines not hard rules. If I were working on your seedlings y would let them get much larger, then cut them down to just a few inches, then grow them up to final heights around 8 inches to a foot or so. But my taste requires thicker trunks to create the illusion of a tree.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Most bonsai trees spend time during their first 5 or ten years at "big tree sizes", in order to bulk up trunks. Let them get 10 or 20 feet tall, then when the base of the trunks are large enough, cut them down to 4 or 6 inches tall. The "big chop" is to about one third of the desired finished height. The secondary and tertiary branches are regrown after the chop.

 

[bonsai_bingo]

Most bonsai trees spend time during their first 5 or ten years at "big tree sizes", in order to bulk up trunks. Let them get 10 or 20 feet tall, then when the base of the trunks are large enough, cut them down to 4 or 6 inches tall. The "big chop" is to about one third of the desired finished height. The secondary and tertiary branches are regrown after the chop.

super helpful, thanks for the parameters. I'm leaning more towards a taller final tree as well, but this starts another great path of learning. More research todo!

 

[dbonsaiw]

Most bonsai trees spend time during their first 5 or ten years at "big tree sizes", in order to bulk up trunks. Let them get 10 or 20 feet tall, then when the base of the trunks are large enough, cut them down to 4 or 6 inches tall. The "big chop" is to about one third of the desired finished height. The secondary and tertiary branches are regrown after the chop.

I started my bonsai journey with this as my game plan for my JMs. Granted, I used big box trees and kind of abused them, but I did not have much success with such severe blind trunk chops. Most never backbudded at all, and some only backbudded really low down. One had very few buds and the consensus here was that most of the trunk would be lost to dieback. I'm more than willing to chalk this experience up to my trees just weren't healthy enough for the severe prune, but was curious whether others also had similar experiences. Would it be safer to do this piecemeal? I.e., prune it from 10 feet to 1 or 2 feet and let it backbud, and then prune again the following season? I've been a little gun shy on my pruning lately and tend to only cut back to existing branching and then only if I have additional branching to feed all of the trunk.

 

[Maiden69]

There is no need to chop any of those trees, unless you are going to do a literati style tree and you want a tall slender tree, or a small shohin. Also, your choice of tree is not great for either style given the type of leaves it produces. Compound leave trees are very hard to keep at shohin sizes, doable, but you will need to have your skills on point. I don't know why would anyone suggest doing a shop in a 3/8" - 1/2" trunk.

Also, I think you labeled A and B trees wrong, I think Jacaranda you labeled as B, and Mimosa as A judging by the leaves and the trunk.

 

[bonsai_bingo]

There is no need to chop any of those trees, unless you are going to do a literati style tree and you want a tall slender tree, or a small shohin. Also, your choice of tree is not great for either style given the type of leaves it produces. Compound leave trees are very hard to keep at shohin sizes, doable, but you will need to have your skills on point. I don't know why would anyone suggest doing a shop in a 3/8" - 1/2" trunk.

Also, I think you labeled A and B trees wrong, I think Jacaranda you labeled as B, and Mimosa as A judging by the leaves and the trunk.

Good shout on the chopping! I think the general consensus I'm getting is DO NOT CHOP yet : )

I've repotted A into a 15 gallon and going to let it grow for a couple years.

Appreciate the catch on mislabeling, the pictures are label right but the post is not! Editing now.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I started my bonsai journey with this as my game plan for my JMs. Granted, I used big box trees and kind of abused them, but I did not have much success with such severe blind trunk chops. Most never backbudded at all, and some only backbudded really low down. One had very few buds and the consensus here was that most of the trunk would be lost to dieback. I'm more than willing to chalk this experience up to my trees just weren't healthy enough for the severe prune, but was curious whether others also had similar experiences. Would it be safer to do this piecemeal? I.e., prune it from 10 feet to 1 or 2 feet and let it backbud, and then prune again the following season? I've been a little gun shy on my pruning lately and tend to only cut back to existing branching and then only if I have additional branching to feed all of the trunk.

Japanese Maples from big box stores are nearly always GRAFTED trees. Being grafted puts them into a whole different trick bag than the seedling trees in the original post. My comments will not work with a big box grafted maple. Start a new thread about your maples, either in the maple sub-forum, or under General sub-forum or New to Bonsai sub forum. But start a clean new thread and we can discuss what to do with grafted big box maples. Whole different set of handling techniques.

 

[bonsai_bingo]

Hey y'all -- two year update post here, still looking for advice on trunk chopping and I may have let one Silk tree grow too big (?)

Thanks y'all!

 

[bonsai_bingo]

Most bonsai trees spend time during their first 5 or ten years at "big tree sizes", in order to bulk up trunks. Let them get 10 or 20 feet tall, then when the base of the trunks are large enough, cut them down to 4 or 6 inches tall. The "big chop" is to about one third of the desired finished height. The secondary and tertiary branches are regrown after the chop.

I may have accidentally done this with one of my silk trees... prob 12-15ft tall now and 2+ inch trunk

 

[Cajunrider]

All the trees here seem to be Fabaceae. All have compound leaves that are hard to make convincing small bonsai. I wouldn't chop any of them until the trunk get to be around 2". One good thing is that they grow very fast in the right conditions. You may only have to wait another year or two.