First Question: Field Grown JBP - Repot or Wait Until Next Year

[penumbra]

Agreed, those ideas were included in my response in case you did not notice that as I suggested poking holes and adding coarse substrate such as pumice.

I think I need glasses.

 

[bwaynef]

I can still feel the tree moving in the pot if I shake the trunk slightly.

I believe for there to be any success, you need to make this tree immobile. If you've already potted it and aren't keen to do the work to properly secure it as you would when tying it into the pot, go around the pot. Whatever you do, the tree needs to be steady in the pot.

 

[River's Edge]

I think I need glasses.

I would lend you mine, if only I could find where I left them. I think they might be with my phone, so I will look for that first! Last I saw it, was beside my hearing aids and cane.. Just kidding I know exactly where my walker is, and as soon as I recover from this back surgery out it goes!

 

[River's Edge]

I believe for there to be any success, you need to make this tree immobile. If you've already potted it and aren't keen to do the work to properly secure it as you would when tying it into the pot, go around the pot. Whatever you do, the tree needs to be steady in the pot.

missed that good call!

 

[roberthu]

Those are second or third year needles and a normal stress response at this point. Watch the last years needles and opening candles, if the tree is recovering they will continue to extend new needles outward and retain their color. If you notice needles turning yellow closest to the branch first and then progressing outward. That is usually an indication of too much water retention. Poke more holes and allow the rootball to dry out a bit between watering. The yellowing that I see seems to be from the needle tips towards the base of the needle. This is an indication that the tree is shedding the older needles as a stress response. Recommend you stay the course, wait for recovery at this point and begin a staged repot in the fall. If the tree responds very well than you can do 1/2 HBR in the fall and the other half in the spring. If you are not sure and want to be extra safe than do a three stage repot. Step One deal with central core and bottom section, remove dead roots, cut back downward thick roots, replace with free draining mix. Step Two, do 1/2 HBR on the weakest side. Remove dead roots cut back strongest and replace with free draining mix. Step Three, do the other 1/2 HBR. Voila, properly repotted and ready to recover and flourish for several years. Step One this fall, Step two next spring, Step Three next Fall.
Note: I typically use this three step method for collected tree's ( after initial recovery), compacted nursery trees, any tree that is in poor soil or very weak condition. The limited disturbance and slower method dealing with the weakest aspects of the root ball first makes a difference allowing trees to use their strongest sections to recover first before they are reduced and weakened.

Good Luck, I think you will be fine if you are very careful with the watering and keep the tree in the sun. PM me if you have any questions.

Awesome! Thank you so much for the detailed instruction!
Just curious what does HBR stand for? I think I know what you mean but I am scratching my head trying to figure out what the three words are

 

[roberthu]

I believe for there to be any success, you need to make this tree immobile. If you've already potted it and aren't keen to do the work to properly secure it as you would when tying it into the pot, go around the pot. Whatever you do, the tree needs to be steady in the pot.

Good call. I use go around the pot to secure it first thing tomorrow!

 

[bwaynef]

Awesome! Thank you so much for the detailed instruction!
Just curious what does HBR stand for? I think I know what you mean but I am scratching my head trying to figure out what the three words are

It's half bareroot. I'd caution against doing the second hbr so soon after the first. Boon, who originated the HBR technique (and has used it to good effect on a myriad of species ...and in many climates/locations) cautions that the timing of the 2nd iteration is determined by how well the tree responds. I don't think you'll have enough information to determine how its responded in the spring of '21, if you've just done the first hbr in the fall of '20. If you do the fall repot in '20, I think it'd be safest to finish the HBR in spring of '22.

 

[roberthu]

It's half bareroot. I'd caution against doing the second hbr so soon after the first. Boon, who originated the HBR technique (and has used it to good effect on a myriad of species ...and in many climates/locations) cautions that the timing of the 2nd iteration is determined by how well the tree responds. I don't think you'll have enough information to determine how its responded in the spring of '21, if you've just done the first hbr in the fall of '20. If you do the fall repot in '20, I think it'd be safest to finish the HBR in spring of '22.

Ah gotcha. Yeah I am still a beginner so I will probably wait until early next spring and then do the first repot. Top priority right now is to tight the tree down in to the pot!

 

[River's Edge]

It's half bareroot. I'd caution against doing the second hbr so soon after the first. Boon, who originated the HBR technique (and has used it to good effect on a myriad of species ...and in many climates/locations) cautions that the timing of the 2nd iteration is determined by how well the tree responds. I don't think you'll have enough information to determine how its responded in the spring of '21, if you've just done the first hbr in the fall of '20. If you do the fall repot in '20, I think it'd be safest to finish the HBR in spring of '22.

Agreed each step of Bonsai is dependant on the response from the previous step and the health of the tree! Personally I have never had to delay the timing but then I am careful to ensure the fall repot has sufficient time for recovery. Having graduated from Boon's program I am in agreement that he always stressed ensuring working on a healthy tree before proceeding. If you check my response it clearly indicated use the two step 1/2 HBR only if the response was great. My main suggestion was the three stage repot which Boon also teaches. In fact he emphasize that the core is very important to address first as it is the most common site of old compacted soil and root issues. I disagree only with leaving the garden dirt in that long after two thirds of the root ball has been corrected and the response is positive. The longer it stays, the more likelihood of root rot and uneven watering issues.

 

[roberthu]

Agreed each step of Bonsai is dependant on the response from the previous step and the health of the tree! Personally I have never had to delay the timing but then I am careful to ensure the fall repot has sufficient time for recovery. Having graduated from Boon's program I am in agreement that he always stressed ensuring working on a healthy tree before proceeding. If you check my response it clearly indicated use the two step 1/2 HBR only if the response was great. My main suggestion was the three stage repot which Boon also teaches. In fact he emphasize that the core is very important to address first as it is the most common site of old compacted soil and root issues. I disagree only with leaving the garden dirt in that long after two thirds of the root ball has been corrected and the response is positive. The longer it stays, the more likelihood of root rot and uneven watering issues.

I am currently learning from Ryan on Mirai and I totally agree that the tree needs to be absolutely healthy before it can be worked on.
Down here in Atlanta, it usually stays pretty warm (above 70F in the day) until late October even mid November. So I am not sure how early should I repot if I do decide to repot in the fall?

 

[sorce]

I think since it just came out of the ground, it will have enough health to be potted decently now.

Declining.....

Declining....

No sense waiting IMo.

If it will survive in that, it will survive a Repot.

Sure it was 6 years, but it wasn't a great 6 years.

How much can a piece of stock in that state cost? $50 $100?

That's what you'd be losing. Not 6 years.
Risk it.

Sorce

 

[River's Edge]

I am currently learning from Ryan on Mirai and I totally agree that the tree needs to be absolutely healthy before it can be worked on.
Down here in Atlanta, it usually stays pretty warm (above 70F in the day) until late October even mid November. So I am not sure how early should I repot if I do decide to repot in the fall?

Last time I was in the Atlanta area was to take a course called Koi Health Management from the Veterinary program in Athens, Georgia. You are fortunate to have a longer growing season, that is a nice advantage. I would allow 6 to 8 weeks before hard frost as a minimum. I would gauge the recovery and health first, if it is doing well then consider it safe as early the latter part of august to beginning of September . In gauging the health consider the foliage color as a first indicator. deep vibrant green with new buds beginning to form for the coming spring. Another indicator is the amount of needles on each candle from the current season. Sparse is an indicator of weakness. JBP roots will remain somewhat active and in recovery through most warmer winter climates! They are considered hardy down to -10 degrees Celsius, or 14 degrees Fahrenheit. If you have repotted and wish to provide some additional aftercare then heel in next to a foundation for additional warmth or some other method avail able to you. Just be aware that due to additional continued growth, watering will be more than usual. Also you need to adapt your watering habits as the substrate changes. Inorganic mixes of similar particle size hold more oxygen and less moisture retention than traditional soils. They dry out faster and require more regular watering. Once again try to pick a sunny location out of the wind for winter after care.
Here on Vancouver Island my pines grow throughout the winter, albeit slowly, typical colder weather in my location is -5 Celsius ( 23 degrees Fahrenheit) and usually for less than a few days at a time.
Note: Temperatures noted need adjustment for Plants in pots on benches exposed to wind chill. Plants on the ground or in the ground have much more protection. Best source is experienced members in your area.

 

[roberthu]

Last time I was in the Atlanta area was to take a course called Koi Health Management from the Veterinary program in Athens, Georgia. You are fortunate to have a longer growing season, that is a nice advantage. I would allow 6 to 8 weeks before hard frost as a minimum. I would gauge the recovery and health first, if it is doing well then consider it safe as early the latter part of august to beginning of September . In gauging the health consider the foliage color as a first indicator. deep vibrant green with new buds beginning to form for the coming spring. Another indicator is the amount of needles on each candle from the current season. Sparse is an indicator of weakness. JBP roots will remain somewhat active and in recovery through most warmer winter climates! They are considered hardy down to -10 degrees Celsius, or 14 degrees Fahrenheit. If you have repotted and wish to provide some additional aftercare then heel in next to a foundation for additional warmth or some other method avail able to you. Just be aware that due to additional continued growth, watering will be more than usual. Also you need to adapt your watering habits as the substrate changes. Inorganic mixes of similar particle size hold more oxygen and less moisture retention than traditional soils. They dry out faster and require more regular watering. Once again try to pick a sunny location out of the wind for winter after care.
Here on Vancouver Island my pines grow throughout the winter, albeit slowly, typical colder weather in my location is -5 Celsius ( 23 degrees Fahrenheit) and usually for less than a few days at a time.
Note: Temperatures noted need adjustment for Plants in pots on benches exposed to wind chill. Plants on the ground or in the ground have much more protection. Best source is experienced members in your area.

Awesome thanks for the tips on gauging health by needles!
I just took some more photos of the candles today. They look pretty healthy to me so fingers crossed.

 

[River's Edge]

Awesome thanks for the tips on gauging health by needles!
I just took some more photos of the candles today. They look pretty healthy to me so fingers crossed.
View attachment 297539View attachment 297540

Candles are progressing normally, looking good so far.

 

[roberthu]

I recently notice some foam like stuff on the tree. Can anyone tell me what they are please?

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Candles are progressing normally, looking good so far.

Really? Normally my pine candles grow straight up!

 

[roberthu]

Really? Normally my pine candles grow straight up!

Don’t tell anyone but these are grown in the space station

 

[River's Edge]

I recently notice some foam like stuff on the tree. Can anyone tell me what they are please?
View attachment 302738View attachment 302739

Alien eggs, where are my tweezers, my gosh look how the mother alien chewed off that branch!
Up in my neck of the woods I call that spit bugs! ( probably not their real name)
Malathion and liquid dawn detergent ( just a drop ) in water for spray treatment! If you are in California just the detergent.

 

[roberthu]

Alien eggs, where are my tweezers, my gosh look how the mother alien chewed off that branch!
Up in my neck of the woods I call that spit bugs! ( probably not their real name)
Malathion and liquid dawn detergent ( just a drop ) in water for spray treatment! If you are in California just the detergent.

Awesome! Thank you for the suggestion. I am in Georgia so I should be fine with Malathion lol