Growing Kyoto Moss... A Curious Approach

[johnl445]

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That tree isn't showable. I have a feeling that pot is its home. Not a big deal, elms can take shallow containers. The moss, however is becoming a problem for the tree in the pot. It should have been removed or reduced substantially a while ago. It can start to shed water from above, channeling it away from the roots. It can also hide rotten roots that need to be addressed.

Moss is not used by more experienced bonsaists for the most part, until it is temporarily put down a couple of months before a show. It is removed after the show is done. It certainly isn't allowed to mound up like this. If this tree were in a show, judges would probably deduct points for it. It doesn't look natural and hints at a bit of neglect.

Ok, I’m learning as I go, and the moss looked unique and attractive. As far as the Zelkova goes, what do you think of this particular tree. The bark is really attractive, I liked the color of the trunk, the broom style pruning looks nice.

 

[rockm]

Tree is hardly worth the outrageous $1750 price tag. It's a clumsy attempt at a broom. It's simply been chopped and the resulting branching has been used without much thought or manipulation. The flat angles of the uniform primary branches that begin all at one level at the chop site aren't a great starting point for the rest of the branching. Brooms are made from UPRIGHT branching that gives way to flatter angled branching to give the character. This tree doesn't do that and has no real character.

Compare it with the one below (Photo stolen from another thread but I think the tree is in Japan). It's excellent. Such bonsai are extremely difficult to pull off and the one below is something to aim for. Note HOW and WHERE the branches emerge from the trunk...

The pot the tree is in, however, is great. It's better than the tree, but still not worth $1750

 

[rockm]

@Bonsai Nut that is a ni

that is a Zelkova, a Japanese elm.
As far as the moss goes, I read that before, about crushing up the spores, but wow, I never imagined you could get moss to look that perfect

I don't think that is a zelkova-leaves are wrong. Looks like a Chinese elm to me too.

 

[johnl445]

Isn’t the grey tree bark a giveaway that it is not the Chinese elm

Bonsai trees around here are expensive, if you want to pay retail.
Anything you buy today has a 50% markup

 

[rockm]

Isn’t the grey tree bark a giveaway that it is not the Chinese elm

Bonsai trees around here are expensive, if you want to pay retail.
Anything you buy today has a 50% markup

No. That bark is typical of some cultivars of Chinese elms. Since Zelkova and Chinese elms are both elms, they share many similar characteristics that can make them "pass" for one another. Grey exfoliating bark is one of those traits. That is why crafty bonsai importers routinely label shipments of Chinese elm as "Zelkova" to get around tighter restrictions on Chinese elm imports. Leaf size and shape is a better way to ID. Those leaves aren't elongated lance shaped, which is typical of Zelkova. Rounder less elongated leaves are more typical of Chinese elm. Chinese elm leaf is on the left. Zelkova on the right. Note tighter serration and more round profile on the Chinese elm leaf vs the Zelkova. The rounder profile can be more pronounced in some "dwarf" cultivars of Chinese elm like Catlin, Seiju, and Hokkaido.

 

[johnl445]

I’m still in the learning process, so I’m gonna listen to you guys, but I have to say whatever kind of Elmtree it was handsome nice age add it to the beauty in detail

 

[Bonsai Nut]

that is a Zelkova, a Japanese elm

I guess anything is possible, but it doesn't look like any zelkova I have ever seen. Zelkovas have noticeably elongated and pointed leaves, versus the symmetrical spear-shape of a Chinese elm leaf. Also zelkovas have smooth grey bark, versus the plating and exfoliating bark of a Chinese elm.

/EDIT I was responding to the earlier comment about my post and didn't read far enough ahead in the thread. @rockm already covered the subject Good news is that we agree

 

[johnl445]

You know, I’m stacking up the evidence in these leaves don’t look elongated at all. Here is a more detailed close-up of the same tree.

 

[johnl445]

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Chinese elm 100%. Trust me on this one. I may own 100 of them

 

[johnl445]

Chinese elm 100%. Trust me on this one. I knowledgeable as he is?

Case is closed

 

[Gio_TYBG]

My Kyoto Moss (Joshua Roth) spores I began around 2 years ago. First year it looked like shit and I basically thought the spores were duds. But the following year it flourished. So don’t rule it out if the moss doesn’t grow out great the first year. Moss takes some time to grow in and acclimate. Best to start it early spring or late winter. By summer it should begin to be look good.


This is currently how it looks as of this week in the Bay Area, CA summer.

And I collect a bunch of local and non local spores. All with their own cool characteristics. This just seems like one of the best (if not the best) that is suitable for bonsai. Doesn’t stick out too much and isn’t too fluffy . But it’s also fluffy enough not to dry out on a hot day.

 

[Charlo]

My Kyoto Moss (Joshua Roth) spores I began around 2 years ago. First year it looked like shit and I basically thought the spores were duds. But the following year it flourished. So don’t rule it out if the moss doesn’t grow out great the first year. Moss takes some time to grow in and acclimate. Best to start it early spring or late winter. By summer it should begin to be look good.


This is currently how it looks as of this week in the Bay Area, CA summer.

And I collect a bunch of local and non local spores. All with their own cool characteristics. This just seems like one of the best (if not the best) that is suitable for bonsai. Doesn’t stick out too much and isn’t too fluffy . But it’s also fluffy enough not to dry out on a hot day.

Thanks for posting. Where I live moss is a rare find due to being in a dry high desert. Trees that I have purchased with moss kept it just fine. However, I have not been able to grow my own. I will give it another try. I have a few packets laying around somewhere.

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Where I live moss is a rare find due to being in a dry high desert. Trees that I have purchased with moss kept it just fine. However, I have not been able to grow my own. I will give it another try. I have a few packets laying around somewhere.

Make sure you are using soft acidic water, which in New Mexico isn't going to be available out of a pipe without substantial filtering/treatment. Trying to grow moss in hard alkaline water with 8.5pH is a fool's errand.

 

[Charlo]

Make sure you are using soft acidic water, which in New Mexico isn't going to be available out of a pipe without substantial filtering/treatment. Trying to grow moss in hard alkaline water with 8.5pH is a fool's errand.

I do save as much rainwater as I can. I will put a bit more effort to growing moss. I have had this tree for about 3 years and moss has remained lush.

 

[Gio_TYBG]

Thanks for posting. Where I live moss is a rare find due to being in a dry high desert. Trees that I have purchased with moss kept it just fine. However, I have not been able to grow my own. I will give it another try. I have a few packets laying around somewhere.

Make sure you mixing in shredded sphagnum moss with the spores .. if weren’t already

 

[Charlo]

Make sure you mixing in shredded sphagnum moss with the spores .. if weren’t already

I have not been doing that. Thanks for the tip!

 

[Gio_TYBG]

I have not been doing that. Thanks for the tip!

No worries .

1. If you have a bonsai sieve, run the moss down on the biggest screen and collect the finer parts can come out. ( as if you’re grating cheese)
2. Wet the sphagnum - just enough so it’s moist but not soggy (so spores stick)
3. Sprinkle the spores into it and mix it through the moss.
4. Keep wet and leave in bright indirect sunlight (under a tree is perfect)
5. Water using misting option on nozzle and never let dry out.

Learned from my teacher who apprenticed in Japan .

I also use volcanic “moss rocks” I get from soil supply stores for a few bucks for my moss propagation surface. Then I just take sheets off this and repeat process.