Is there a practical way to make a sloped soil?

[Mike Corazzi]

Yep, I know I will violate every aesthetic rule for bonsai but I have some olive seedlings that have lived through being unceremoniously jammed into ...dirt... from some cuttings.
Some are interesting. All look like a neglected orchard.
So....penjing or blasphemy, I think they'd look dandy as a neglected olive orchard hillside.

Any ideas other than tarring and feathering?

 

[AZbonsai]

Terrace?

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

I have built in sloping walls of clay-peat - muck to create mounds in a shallow tray. The hollow underneath is filled with normal bonsai soil. Since the muck ''dam'' is relatively impervious to water, one really must be careful to get the soil under the muck wall wet when you water. Clay will eventually wash away. Plant the muck wall with moss, and or low growing perennials right away, to keep it stable enough that the roots of your trees will eventually hold the bonsai soil after the muck wall washes away.

So a 1 inch deep by 23 x 15 inch oval tray had soil mounded to 4 inches deep. The muck covered the outer 2 inches of the bonsai media, in order to hold the mound to 4 inches after being watered.

It can be done. Make sure the muck is similar in color to you bonsai potting mix, so that it is not obvious how the soil is being held in place. Once the roots of the tree(s) stabilize the whole mass, then it doesn't matter if the muck washes away.

 

[Adair M]

Nope, no way it can be done!

Oh... wait...



This is Kimura’s famous forest. It was done just like the post above describes.

 

[BobbyLane]

i learnt a lot about terracing and contouring with moss and soil on this thread here from the IBC. Robert steven describes the process

Reborn forest...Murraya Sp. - Page 3

I try to make base on Marcus' picture. What we see in nature might be interesting and unique, but it doesn't mean beautiful when turn into bonsai as we need to

ibonsaiclub.forumotion.com

i created my chinese elm forest using some of these ideas, if one looks closely you can see the levels in the soil and moss, almost like steps and ridges in places. one could imagine the terrain being rough and uneven.
525751e5-fef1-48af-95ae-9e8c5f59023c by Bobby Lane, on Flickr
afde8308-5923-4e16-84e9-f41ee35291a8 by Bobby Lane, on Flickr
b293cdb3-8787-4233-8afd-198e3360391f by Bobby Lane, on Flickr

 

[AlainK]

.penjing or blasphemy, I think they'd look dandy as a neglected olive orchard hillside.

Well, that's a very good idea.

Another problem would be to choose the right container.

But for a sloping soil, or ishitsuki (trees growing on rock, not root-over-rock), the Japanese une "keto". It's a black kind of clay from rice-fields as far as I know. Here, it is sold by eople who also sell akadama and kanuma, and other imported products for bonsai.

The container : a reproduction of the Vesuvio ? ... Just kidding. That's a very original idea, worth developping.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

"Keto" - black muck from rice fields.

I remember my father telling me, that when he was stationed in Japan, during the Korean war, (he was there 1952-1953), he saw early each morning, the "honey truck" gathering buckets of human waste, go down the street, collecting from each house. It was hauled to the rice fields, for fertilizer.

Just thought I'd share what the word "keto" brought to mind.

I am certain that today this is no longer the case.

 

[Smoke]

"Keto" - black muck from rice fields.

I remember my father telling me, that when he was stationed in Japan, during the Korean war, (he was there 1952-1953), he saw early each morning, the "honey truck" gathering buckets of human waste, go down the street, collecting from each house. It was hauled to the rice fields, for fertilizer.

Just thought I'd share what the word "keto" brought to mind.

I am certain that today this is no longer the case.

Thats how you make your own humic acid....

 

[Mike Corazzi]

I suppose I could go to Haiti and run down a bayakou.

Haiti's 'Bayakou': Hauling Away Human Excrement By Hand

Haiti's capital city doesn't have a sewer system. Instead, so-called nightsoil, or human excrement, is largely removed by hand by workers who toil at night under cover of darkness.

www.npr.org

 

[AlainK]

Just thought I'd share what the word "keto" brought to mind.

That's a very nice story, the kind of stuff one can relate to, even if they weren't there, for we all have similar experiences. Moments that are very personal, yet that you want to share, but you can just try.

gathering buckets of human waste, go down the street, collecting from each house. It was hauled to the rice fields, for fertilizer.

Recycling : you must have heard of "terra preta", haven't you ?

Same kind of idea : recycling.

 

[choppychoppy]

Yep, I know I will violate every aesthetic rule for bonsai but I have some olive seedlings that have lived through being unceremoniously jammed into ...dirt... from some cuttings.
Some are interesting. All look like a neglected orchard.
So....penjing or blasphemy, I think they'd look dandy as a neglected olive orchard hillside.

Any ideas other than tarring and feathering?

Do you need a muck recipe?

 

[Mike Corazzi]

I got pretty close with a pile of stones for elevation interspersed with organic and small aka mix between and amidst them.
Tried watering and it holds shape.

 

[Michael P]

Do you need a muck recipe?

Mike may not, but I do. I'm experimenting with muck this summer in preparation for some slabs early next spring. My biggest problem is that the clay/sphagnum mixutre dries out in hot summer weather and cracks. This allows soil and water to escape. I have been using bentonite and long-fiber sphagnum in various proportions. I know this will improve as roots fill the soil, but it is difficult to get to the point while losing soil and water through the cracks.

 

[Mike Corazzi]

How about crumpling up a little roll of flimsy shade cloth? Like weed cloth. Roll some soil or muck in it like a doobie and snake it wherever you want.
THEN .... dust it over with some soil. I think that would hold.
And be durable and resistant to cracking.
For steeper slopes, maybe make a taco out of it. ??????

Bonsai rebar.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Fabric window screen, or the mesh that dry wall tapers (house painters too) use for covering the seam between sheets of drywall.

 

[BobbyLane]

Ryan neil doesnt seem too fussed

he uses sphagnum moss in these compositions almost exclusively and it seems to yield great results and doesnt dry out too quickly if watered properly. in my own experience, i found a sphagnum moss wall with normal moss on top extremely effective.
it should be noted that he doesnt bare root these beech trees either, there is quite a bit of normal compost left in the roots and of course this also helps the composition to retain moisture.

 

[Adair M]

Ryan neil doesnt seem too fussed

he uses sphagnum moss in these compositions almost exclusively and it seems to yield great results and doesnt dry out too quickly if watered properly. in my own experience, i found a sphagnum moss wall with normal moss on top extremely effective.

Bobby, don’t you know that you’re not supposed to put a link to a Mirai video here? You’re “supposed” to “explain” to us! Lol!!! <sarcasm>

 

[Michael P]

Good suggestions, thanks!

 

[choppychoppy]

Mike may not, but I do. I'm experimenting with muck this summer in preparation for some slabs early next spring. My biggest problem is that the clay/sphagnum mixutre dries out in hot summer weather and cracks. This allows soil and water to escape. I have been using bentonite and long-fiber sphagnum in various proportions. I know this will improve as roots fill the soil, but it is difficult to get to the point while losing soil and water through the cracks.

So I use powdered bentonite clay (stuff they use for face masks - its cheap), organic potting soil and the finely ground peat. I mix with water till its like play-doh and go to work. If cracks develop take the regular sphagnum and shred it really fine and wet it down and fill the cracks with it.