Juniper “Yard”Dori substrate ?

[Devo12]

Hey guys

Wanna dig out a normal Juniper in a yard. What is a great substitute for Pumice for a collected juniper ? Or any other substrate people have been successful with?

Thanks guys

 

[Shibui]

Everything, including junipers dug out of the grow beds go into my normal mix - 70% small pine bark, 30% propagating sand + ferts
I think it is more about conditions and care than the substrate.

 

[Devo12]

Everything, including junipers dug out of the grow beds go into my normal mix - 70% small pine bark, 30% propagating sand + ferts
I think it is more about conditions and care than the substrate.

Awesome thanks! And you quite successful with that mix obviously? and do you Fertilize right away?

 

[Shibui]

I use the same mix for everything I grow. The mix includes controlled release fert so all transplants get some right from the start. I don't add any extra fert until I see good growth.
The shimpaku I grow for sale are slow to re-establish. They don't generally show much sign of recovering until mid summer.
In the first few years I lost a couple but in the last 6 years all have survived transplant. I was advised to leave some intact growing tips on some branches. Maybe that makes the difference, maybe I am just better at care now?

 

[Devo12]

I use the same mix for everything I grow. The mix includes controlled release fert so all transplants get some right from the start. I don't add any extra fert until I see good growth.
The shimpaku I grow for sale are slow to re-establish. They don't generally show much sign of recovering until mid summer.
In the first few years I lost a couple but in the last 6 years all have survived transplant. I was advised to leave some intact growing tips on some branches. Maybe that makes the difference, maybe I am just better at care now?

Okay awesome thanks! Will do so, I will try that . Any other tips for them? I’m collecting now which is ending of winter, that okay?

 

[BunjaeKorea]

Okay awesome thanks! Will do so, I will try that . Any other tips for them? I’m collecting now which is ending of winter, that okay?

That's generally the best time. If you get into the dry summer of the cape giving them shade in the midday sun for the first year after collecting would be good. Try to collect as much root as you can. Also there's plenty of vynbos species in the cape that can be used for bonsai too so play around with what you have.

 

[Devo12]

That's generally the best time. If you get into the dry summer of the cape giving them shade in the midday sun for the first year after collecting would be good. Try to collect as much root as you can. Also there's plenty of vynbos species in the cape that can be used for bonsai too so play around with what you have.

Awesome, yeh so I’m gonna try get it out soon as possible and true, I keep my eye out on some fynbos when I’m hiking etc ..
Would you give them some sun? Or potentially just shade

 

[Shibui]

Similar seasons and climate here in southern Australia. Now or soon should be a good time. I have dug all the maples but waiting a week or 2 to do the Chinese elms, pines and junipers. I prefer to allow them to become a little active before doing major root work. Not sure if that is absolutely necessary as I have not tried earlier transplant for the conifers.
I generally cut back roots when digging the grow bed grown trees but they will probably have better root systems than general garden junipers due to concentrated watering closer to the trunks. The trunks will be 4-6 cm diameter and roots are cut back to fit into a 30cm orchid pot.

 

[BunjaeKorea]

Awesome, yeh so I’m gonna try get it out soon as possible and true, I keep my eye out on some fynbos when I’m hiking etc ..
Would you give them some sun? Or potentially just shade

Sure a good 3-4 hours in the morning and the same at night, so minimum 7 hours or so direct morning and afternoon sun, it's the midday sun that does damage especially if they haven't put down roots. Just the first year is when they need the most protection. Are the junipers native? A picture would help. Also most vynbos hate having wet feet so make sure the soil drains very well. If you have any South African gardening books they may help give an idea of what each species likes.

 

[Devo12]

Similar seasons and climate here in southern Australia. Now or soon should be a good time. I have dug all the maples but waiting a week or 2 to do the Chinese elms, pines and junipers. I prefer to allow them to become a little active before doing major root work. Not sure if that is absolutely necessary as I have not tried earlier transplant for the conifers.
I generally cut back roots when digging the grow bed grown trees but they will probably have better root systems than general garden junipers due to concentrated watering closer to the trunks. The trunks will be 4-6 cm diameter and roots are cut back to fit into a 30cm orchid pot.

Oh so you cut quite a bit of root back? I know that I’ll have to cut back the larger thick roots back

 

[Devo12]

Sure a good 3-4 hours in the morning and the same at night, so minimum 7 hours or so direct morning and afternoon sun, it's the midday sun that does damage especially if they haven't put down roots. Just the first year is when they need the most protection. Are the junipers native? A picture would help. Also most vynbos hate having wet feet so make sure the soil drains very well. If you have any South African gardening books they may help give an idea of what each species likes.

 

[BunjaeKorea]

You would want to keep as much fine root as possible, then after potting clean out all the dead foliage to increase light penetration and airflow. Letting it rest at least a year before styling is very important.

 

[Shibui]

That looks like quite a large juniper. Much bigger than the ones I usually grow so it will need commensurately larger roots and pot.
Do not just randomly cut roots to fit a pot. Save as many fine roots as possible but you will need to cut some (many?) thicker roots that are too long for the container. If a thick root has few fine roots there is no point keeping it long. New roots almost always grow from the cut ends and will grow just as well from cut ends closer to the trunk provided the tree can stay alive long enough for that to happen.
How much and which to cut can only be decided when you dig and see what is there. If all roots are thick and long with few fine feeders it may be better to cut surface roots short then back fill and keep it well watered next summer. Deeper intact roots will keep it alive while the cut ones grow new feeder roots. Next winter it will be far safer to dig with lots of new feeder roots on the laterals.

Lots of foliage on the tree. Some will need to be removed I suspect. rather than shorten everything look at the structure and decide which trunks/branches could be superfluous and remove all foliage on those while leaving more useful branches relatively intact. I would not remove more than half total foliage from a juniper.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

In addition to shibui, I'd like to say that you can fold roots pretty easily. If they don't fit in the pot, just fold them over. For the time being, that should work. Once it's back to good health and established in a pot, you could start hacking if needed.
As for foliage removal, I'm not a big fan of that in junipers. They kind of need it and they'll drop whatever they don't use by themselves within a year.

 

[Devo12]

Yeeeeh I agree regarding the foliage . And the juniper does look large but it’s probably hip high which isn’t soooo big . Haven’t had a great look at the structure but looks like lots of small dead branches etc just from not getting sun will probably have to clean that up first. And will hopefully collect all the roots , I did read somewhere about washing / spraying the old soil away before potting ? Correct ?

 

[BunjaeKorea]

Yeeeeh I agree regarding the foliage . And the juniper does look large but it’s probably hip high which isn’t soooo big . Haven’t had a great look at the structure but looks like lots of small dead branches etc just from not getting sun will probably have to clean that up first. And will hopefully collect all the roots , I did read somewhere about washing / spraying the old soil away before potting ? Correct ?

I use the root fold technique too. The focus of collecting should always be to let the tree survive. Dead leaves must go. I never wash juniper roots, or any conifer for that matter but especially pines. Just gently shaking off the old soil and then removing the rest gently by hand is the best. When repotting make sure you get soil in between all the roots. There is no such thing as a fast repot when you do it right.

 

[Devo12]

I use the root fold technique too. The focus of collecting should always be to let the tree survive. Dead leaves must go. I never wash juniper roots, or any conifer for that matter but especially pines. Just gently shaking off the old soil and then removing the rest gently by hand is the best. When repotting make sure you get soil in between all the roots. There is no such thing as a fast repot when you do it right.

Okay awesome thanks !! Have you got any other recommendations regarding substrate for a collected juniper ?

 

[Shibui]

And the juniper does look large but it’s probably hip high which isn’t soooo big

Take it from someone who has dug a few. Trees have a habit of expanding when you get them out of the ground. Whatever size pot you expect to use allow for double that, sometimes even more. With roots and the soil you just cannot shake off it will weigh double what you estimate now.
They also seem to change quite a lot as you get them out of the ground. A tree that looked really exciting in the field starts to look pretty ordinary by the time you get it to the pot. Within a week you start to wonder why you bothered to dig it up.
As you become more experienced less poor ones end up coming home. Very occasionally there's one that makes it all worth while.

 

[BunjaeKorea]

Take it from someone who has dug a few. Trees have a habit of expanding when you get them out of the ground. Whatever size pot you expect to use allow for double that, sometimes even more. With roots and the soil you just cannot shake off it will weigh double what you estimate now.
They also seem to change quite a lot as you get them out of the ground. A tree that looked really exciting in the field starts to look pretty ordinary by the time you get it to the pot. Within a week you start to wonder why you bothered to dig it up.
As you become more experienced less poor ones end up coming home. Very occasionally there's one that makes it all worth while.

This is gold, and only comes with experience.

 

[Devo12]

Take it from someone who has dug a few. Trees have a habit of expanding when you get them out of the ground. Whatever size pot you expect to use allow for double that, sometimes even more. With roots and the soil you just cannot shake off it will weigh double what you estimate now.
They also seem to change quite a lot as you get them out of the ground. A tree that looked really exciting in the field starts to look pretty ordinary by the time you get it to the pot. Within a week you start to wonder why you bothered to dig it up.
As you become more experienced less poor ones end up coming home. Very occasionally there's one that makes it all worth while.

Very true as I can imagine. But gotta experience these things