larch

[petegreg]

- I've never ever heard of them responding to grafting of any kind.

I owe you one more response. From Nick Lenz Bonsai from the wild:
Larch is resinous, only those methods employing living branches from the same or another tree will work well. Grafting methods:
-wedge/undercut grafting done in summer
-approach grafts
-through/thread grafts done in fall
-one point grafting.

 

[AlainK]

Hi,

A very interesting thread.

The problem is that different species of larch seem to respond differently to grafting of backbudding, even if they look a lot alike. So everyone holds a bit of truth about "the Larch"

- European x Japanese Larch do NOT back bud - I've been growing them for 35 years and it's never happened to any of mine. Larch specialists have confirmed this to me.

It's true that none of my Dunkeld larch has ever backbudded. Even the one I had planted in the garden, then uprooted didn't backbud. I had left a few fine twigs, but even where there were no apprent buds, the stubs I had just dried out:

March 2008:

June 2013 (about 1.60 metres, 5 feet+). You can see a dead stub at the base of the tree, on the right:

I've never ever heard of them responding to grafting of any kind.

I've tried it twice: on a small one, and it worked, except that I worked too soon on the grafted part. I had severed the lowest part of the branch (from the same tree), the graft was in full swing but when I wired it, the scar split and the graft died.

The other one is still waiting: this time, I drew a tiny brass screw (the kind some use for boat models) so I wouldn't have the same problem again.

So I think that thread grafting on Larix x eurolepis (Larix x marschlinsii, "Dunkeld larch", the best suited for my environment) is possible, but the chances of success are more difficult, and much lower than for other species.

The problem is, how to recognize a larch from a horse-chestnut?....

 

[jeremy_norbury]

@jeremy_norbury , here's the thread you had to admit for the first time you were not right. http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/and-another-days-larch-work.18062/
OK, maybe not back buds, but sleeping or lateral buds can wake up, esp. from the places where branch was removed. Just spend your time and google it. I had a hard time to remove unwanted buds or young shots comming from crotches or internodes in past.
Just have a look how many branches were there in the yellow circle... Let OP to prove it.

I didn't say I wasn't right, I said I'd never seen it before. I'm still right, it's so uncommon as to be completely unreliable.

 

[petegreg]

I didn't say I wasn't right, I said I'd never seen it before. I'm still right, it's so uncommon as to be completely unreliable.

Sure, uncommon and unreliable do not mean impossible and do not allow you to accuse me of providing the bunch of false info. Happy growing.

http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/encouraging-adventitious-budding.22619/

 

[jeremy_norbury]

Sure, uncommon and unreliable do not mean impossible and do not allow you to accuse me of providing the bunch of false info. Happy growing.

http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/encouraging-adventitious-budding.22619/

You have two larch - show me where yours backbudded.

 

[crust]

Not straight enough for formal upright? Hmmm...

I have only two larches and got some back buds at least from whorl places.

...after chopping, can you see a new trunk line?

...if he removes the top, new one will not grow? Received more than one meter of growth in the the ground this year.
Oh, man...

Yes lower cut!

 

[petegreg]

You have two larch - show me where your back budded.

Unable, they are spending winter 50 miles away of me in my mother's garden. Let's wait for larch guys and for what the OP's tree will teach us.

 

[defra]

what do you mean with OP ?

 

[petegreg]

what do you mean with OP ?

OP stands for Original Poster (of the thread).

 

[defra]

that woud be me lol
ill keep this thread up to date so anyone can learn from this

 

[defra]

im also considering to try something like this :

 

[Tentakelaertje]

Dennis, your larch has both the original plan and the WP tree in it, but if you shape it like the WP tree now, you can't make the original plan out of the tree anymore, but the other way around would allow both ideas to be possible.
Again, nice tree, and I'm curious to see what you make out of it.

Ps. You got a pm

 

[defra]

after spending some time looking at this tree i realized that my pictures might misled you all to clear things up i made this video :

all the branches you see left and right untill the top all Come from the seccond branch. ... thats the reason i tought of grafting.

im sure now that ill go for the design like the wp tree i posted..... but i Will keep two branches in the top and dont make the deadwood yet to still be able to see if it is going to backbud or not ill keep you posted!

 

[dirk hoorelbeke]

Yes you do miss some branches. The problem with the WP tree is that you work with young material. You will lose the top portion of deadwood over the years. So keep in mind that you can have this tree without the jin left. I would go ahead, remove branches that can not be used and start styling but leave all options open. Style the upper portion more like a literati and the lower portion as a tree on its own. Two years down the road your vision might be different and it gives you something to look forward to.

 

[defra]

The problem with the WP tree is that you work with young material. You will lose the top portion of deadwood over the years. So keep in mind that you can have this tree without the jin left.

when that time comes i could Let the lower branch grow out as New trunk in the ground for a couple years as back up plan maybe

thnx for pointing out that might happen!

 

[defra]

got The wire in must say i like The result maybe its to tall tough ill Let it be for now
wireing could be better but dont have much wireing experience yet

made a Quick video of result
Will make better pics and video some other time

please do tell what is good and what not

 

[defra]

@mattspiniken @jeremy_norbury @just.wing.it @sorce @Bolero @GGB @AlainK
im not impatient
I worked the tree Just to Let you know lol

 

[dirk hoorelbeke]

You did a good job. You might add some more movement. When they grow thicker the sometimes subtle movement will disappear. Most of the (secondary) branches start with a rather big angle (left image). Some say it look like frog legs. When wiring wide you have a full canopy faster but for the tertiary branches you might have some problems. Somehow you want pads in a larch. But again i think you made a nice image with good movement.

 

[defra]

thnx dirk I wil look into it !
also I need to shorten some branches probably to get it more compact

 

[M. Frary]

I'd cut it off at the lowest branch then let it grow in the ground for a few years to see what happens..
Don't count on backbudding but if you hit it hard enough you may force some dormant buds to pop.