Lets do a merger!

Tiberious

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Why dont we combine Bonsai nut, bonsai talk, aob, and bonsaisite together? That is wonderful idea:)
 

Tachigi

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They couldn't handle us! :)
 
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Why dont we combine Bonsai nut, bonsai talk, aob, and bonsaisite together? That is wonderful idea:)

Lol, this reminds me of that old Sesame Street song my daughter used to sing...it went something like, "which of these things don't belong with the others, which of these things are not like the others...."



;)



Will
 

Graydon

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No, not a wonderful idea IMHO. That would be too much like a monopoly. Each site has it's own reason for existence, personality and group of people who feel comfortable hanging and posting at that location. Bookmark them all and drop in to check up on what is going on at each site you like.
 

Tiberious

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Fair enough. I understand bonsai is quite political, so its perfectly understandable. I myself do like them all although bonsaitalk tends to get the most action. But this one is better for higher quality specimens and more advanced technique discussion. Bonsaisite is real good for newbs, although its hard to keep answering questions over and over that can be easily fetched by using the search key. Aob is an amazing site with very good editorials and galleries, I am quit fond of this site.

I would like to see more artist that post progressions of their work, those seem the most satisfying to read. All too often I find a site where the artist has collected or bought a very expensive specimen and then wires it and carves it a little and then its shown as this major transformation. Dont get me wrong, their some amazing work being done with collected material, but to me, nursery, seedlings, and pre-bonsai are much more inspiring for me at this stage. I honestly dont like collecting anything from the wild, and I will probably be in my 50s or 60s before I can afford any wild junipers, so I dont get much out of watching these transformations. Sometimes I think, well how can you really go wrong with a 300 year old juniper? A. Make a triangle on top or wherever there is foliage, B. Expose wood fibers and preserve. My favorite sites are Orlando Bonsai and Reiner Goebel website, those two sites I got the most out of.
 
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Politics in bonsai? Come on, you must be joking. ;) Sadly most forums, clubs, and organizations are seething with politics, such is human nature I guess.

I would like to see more artist that post progressions of their work, those seem the most satisfying to read. All too often I find a site where the artist has collected or bought a very expensive specimen and then wires it and carves it a little and then its shown as this major transformation.
You may want to check out this for progressions and if you like contests, check out last year's progression styling contest entries as well as this year's contest entries to date.

Sometimes I think, well how can you really go wrong with a 300 year old juniper? A. Make a triangle on top or wherever there is foliage, B. Expose wood fibers and preserve.
Oh, so that is what I have been doing wrong. ;)



Will
 

JasonG

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Dont get me wrong, their some amazing work being done with collected material, but to me, nursery, seedlings, and pre-bonsai are much more inspiring for me at this stage. I honestly dont like collecting anything from the wild, and I will probably be in my 50s or 60s before I can afford any wild junipers, so I dont get much out of watching these transformations. Sometimes I think, well how can you really go wrong with a 300 year old juniper? A. Make a triangle on top or wherever there is foliage, B. Expose wood fibers and preserve.
Hmmmm.... You will learn the truth one day!! HAHA
Jason
 

Attila Soos

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Tiberius,

Bonsai is a matter of taste. The great thing about it, is that you are free to create the type of bonsai that you like the most. Bonsai created from very old, collected material looks very different from bonsai that is created from young nursery seedling. That's because you will not have 200 years to create a bonsai, but your target will be 10 - 20 years.

Both can be very nice, but they look very different. So, if you prefer to work with young material, it is perfectly all right. The key is not to have false expectations. Don't expect to start with a juniper seedling, and hope to create a juniper bonsai that look like those collected ones that are hundreds of years old. The "impression of age" is the key, and not the real age, but they are also limitations to that. The most important question is always: what type of material do you prefer to work on? It's not a hard choice. Don't let people tell you what you should like, but listen to your own taste. And, like for all of us, your taste will evolve with time.
 

subnet_rx

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For those that don't care about the politics, it would be nice for all of them to have one site that updates with the new posts at each. At some point, new members get tired of going to each one, and will choose one, usually the one that sees the most traffic, and forget the others. It's the main reason why forums like this don't survive for very long. If you have a forum that makes it over the 3 year mark with over 200,000 posts, then your doing pretty good. BonsaiNut and BonsaiChat would be getting the better end of the deal if they partnered with BonsaiTalk and BonsaiSite, but the larger sites usually have no interest in doing so.
 

Bill S

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"BonsaiNut and BonsaiChat would be getting the better end of the deal if they partnered with BonsaiTalk and BonsaiSite, but the larger sites usually have no interest in doing so."

I disagree here as far as getting the better end of the deal, unless the criteria is # of hits, it's already been touched on for some reasons so I won't go there, but I don't think the members and staff of the "so called lesser sites" would want that either, each has it's own atmosphere, and some just would drag things down IMHO.

I visit 3 sometimes 4 depending on time and boredom, again each has it's niche, good enough for most, I vote no mergers.
 

Attila Soos

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Heavy traffic doesn't mean much to a lot of us. I may be a minority, but I skip 90% of the threads, just by looking at the title and the originator. Not out of disrespect, but just because those threads don't mean much to me.

So it is better to have many different sites, and each of us chooses to spend more time on the ones closest to our tastes.

Saying that we should have one big bonsai site is like saying that, instead of having many different stores, catering to different tastes, we should have just one giant supermarket where 6 billion people goes shopping. Imagine the nightmare..
 

onlyrey

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Yes, please combine them and give me the domain names. If you were one of the bonsai sites and asked me which one I'd combine with, I'd say with bonsaisite hands down, it has an enormous traffic that overshadows any other site.
 
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subnet_rx

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"BonsaiNut and BonsaiChat would be getting the better end of the deal if they partnered with BonsaiTalk and BonsaiSite, but the larger sites usually have no interest in doing so."

I disagree here as far as getting the better end of the deal, unless the criteria is # of hits, it's already been touched on for some reasons so I won't go there, but I don't think the members and staff of the "so called lesser sites" would want that either, each has it's own atmosphere, and some just would drag things down IMHO.

I visit 3 sometimes 4 depending on time and boredom, again each has it's niche, good enough for most, I vote no mergers.
There's no real reason why these atmospheres and niches can't be created on one forum. I'm not talking about hits, I'm not sure why that was brought up. I'm talking about more people sharing ideas about bonsai. Sharing their suggestions, their experiences, and their advice in order to advance it to a new level. What happens in a one department store town when another moves in? Sometimes both of them die, because they are pulling people in different directions.

You don't have to really merge to accomplish this. You can build pages that pull new posts from all sites, and when someone is interested in a topic, they click it and go to that particular site. It really takes opening your mind to what's best for the art of bonsai, and not what's in the best interest of those that can't get along with another group of people.
 
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Unfortunately, traffic does not often equal quality.

The old quality vs quantity debate has been had in almost every venue, including food...you want food fast and where a lot of people eat, go to McDonalds (over 1 billion served)...the same can be said about many McBonsai sites.

Not to be overly pessimistic, but many high traffic sites are such because of the large number of beginners or intermediate practitioners posting, go to any one and count the posts of those at or under intermediate level compared to those above.....the math is true.



Will
 

JasonG

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A merger would never happen in a million years and if it did it would be a shame. That would be like joining Wendys, McDonalds, Burgerville and Carls Jr into 1 burger joint....it makes no sense. You have to have a place where everyone can be comfy.....

Internet Bonsai Club..... Advanced, lots of Europeans, Americans and higher end bonsai.

Bonsai Talk...... by far the most people and a mix of advanced and begineers, mostly begineer to intermediate

Bonsaisite.... mostly begineer with 3 or 4 regulars that are nearing the advanced stages. Most of the advanced left.

BonsaiNut.... much better now that the bickering and crap has stopped. Now it is enjoyable but unfourtantly a few people that love to argue over anything have ran many away from here. I think that we have a future here.

AoB..... coffee table site.... not much action in the way of people posting trees but lots of articles

KoB...... Same as AoB but a little less glossy. good interviews and pretty good ideas with contests.

Bonsaichat.... went there a few times and found there to be nothing too interesting and haven't been back.

BonsaiVault..To new to really tell, but it is different in that it isn't a post pictures forum but rather a knowledge forum. I visit once every few weeks...

I visit DaNut, IBC, BonsaiTalk daily, AoB, Kob everyother day and BonsaiSite about once every 3 weeks. Each site has its own purpose and is needed to fill that niche. No way 1 site can do all of that.

FWIW, Jason
 

Smoke

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The old quality vs quantity debate has been had in almost every venue, including food...you want food fast and where a lot of people eat, go to McDonalds (over 1 billion served)...the same can be said about many McBonsai sites.

Not to be overly pessimistic, but many high traffic sites are such because of the large number of beginners or intermediate practitioners posting, go to any one and count the posts of those at or under intermediate level compared to those above.....the math is true.



Will
I see no purpose served in degrading other bonsai sites.
 

Tiberious

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Atilia thanks for your knowledge, Will thanks for the great links. I think a merger is a great idea for my convenience more than anything, since I dont really hold any of them close to my heart. As someone mentioned, going back and forth and back again is really tiring in this day n age:D Ok so each has its own merits, I wish things were like they were back in 2004-2006 when Harry, Walter, and the other big shots still posted, those were indeed the days:eek:
 
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I see no purpose served in degrading other bonsai sites.
I agree, which is exactly why I used generalities and named no names.



On the topic, mergers are pointless and defeat the advantages of having multiple forums. Speaking from experience, we divided bonsai into two areas when we created AoB and KoB, one dealing only with the artistic aspects of bonsai and the other with the cultivation aspects. Both aimed at the intermediate and above readers. We tried very hard to offer what no one else has and have succeeded well in that aspect.

In my opinion, there is just two much knowledge about bonsai to host in one forum alone. Diversity is a good thing and with multiple forums you get a wide range of thoughts and goals creating a wide range of knowledge. Together they make a great knowledge base if one is not too lazy to search through them. Granted some forums have a lot of garbage that tends to cover up the good, but those hidden gems are worth it.

A merger (not that it would ever be seriously considered) would create a bigger garbage heap and forever hide the gems. Not to mention make using the resulting forum impossible to navigate and difficult to search.

There is a real need for forums that cater to the beginner as well as those who cater to the advanced, forums will live or die based on the content provided, the content also dictates who uses it.

Time decides what format works and for what level of bonsaist.

A merger would accomplish nothing.


Will
 
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.... I wish things were like they were back in 2004-2006 when Harry, Walter, and the other big shots still posted, those were indeed the days:eek:
If by "big shots" you mean the very experienced, these are the good old days ;)

At KoB Robert Steven, Dan Barton, Jim Smith, and Morten Albek are active in the classroom. Brent Walston, William Valavanis and Walter both post here and at other sites. Some very experienced artists post and write articles at AoB and IBC is a virtual who's who in bonsai.

AoB has interviews with some of the best artists in the world, the contests there are entered by some of the best artists of our time, and the galleries showcase their work.

Certainly some old timers have left the net, but I'll wager that there are more very experienced people posting now than at any other time in the past.


Will
 

subnet_rx

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Well, I realize this is an exercise in futility, I have only seen two forums merge into one in my lifetime. Anyway, I just wanted to be clear that my point was not about a merger. The technical hurdles alone would probably expend the motivation to do it before it got started. My thought was just a single page that updates me on all posts in each forum. I may can do this with RSS if it's enabled on all forums now that I think about it.

My secondary point was, the underlying technology is the same on all the communities involved. How they are run is different. What's to say you could not have a single forum, with sub-communities, run by people the way they wanted their community to be run? Claiming that search would be a problem is about like saying the internet should slow down because I can't find what I want in Google anymore. That's not the internet's problem, it's the search technology. I have some interest in communities and making them work, and have read/studied about social interaction a bit but I think this conversation is better suited for a different crowd. I did not have any hopes of any mergers actually happening, but always like to hear from community members on why they don't want it to happen.
 
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