Mesh sided alternatives to Anderson Flats? Like larger pond baskets?

[Poink88]

You might find it useful to research information on air pruning.

^^ Methinks Dario was referring to 'double basketed', Vance, hence the quote.

Can't air pruning be achieved with just one pond basket .... ? Why two? I don't think I've read a logical reason why to use 2 ...

Vance,

What Marie said.

You really need to try to understand other's post first to avoid problems. I do know about air pruning and how you made and patented your grow boxes. Hard to miss since it comes up every several months and I have a relatively good memory compared to most my age.

 

[Dav4]

The real benefit of using double baskets is that the roots have more room to run before being air pruned, but when you lift the smaller basket out of the larger to cut the roots back, you're leaving most of the root system undisturbed which allows the tree to continue growing without skipping a beat. Never done it but that's how it's been explained to me and it makes sense.

 

[pwk5017]

No luck finding black ones. But I found that getting it on eBay will be more expensive because you have to pay shipping for each one. Try this site.

For the 21" x 17": http://www.eliterestaurantequipment.com/thunder-group-plastic-square-colander-21-3-4-plfb001.html

For the 18" x 13": http://www.eliterestaurantequipment.com/thunder-group-plastic-square-colander-18-plfb003.html

I tried putting 15 in the shopping cart. Shipping is only $15 for Massachusetts!

I've seen these before, and love the dimensions and price, but I'm really apprehensive about how well these things will hold up in the sun. I've only used a few colanders before(I use pond baskets 10" square and 13" square) and the colanders get super brittle after a year or two in the sun. I have pond baskets that are five years old and still going strong. Before I she'll out 8 bucks a container, I want to know I can get 4+ years out of it.

 

[Vance Wood]

Vance,

What Marie said.

You really need to try to understand other's post first to avoid problems. I do know about air pruning and how you made and patented your grow boxes. Hard to miss since it comes up every several months and I have a relatively good memory compared to most my age.

I wasn't trying to be argumentitive and I'm sorry I did not analyze all of the posts closely, I thought you were asking why the pond basket was a good idea. Rather than post a long thread with what I now know would have been a wasted effort I simply suggested you look up air pruning.
I am currently attending an out of state funeral and do not have access to my own computer or the time to research things as closely as I should have where you are concerned.

 

[Jason_mazzy]

I've seen these before, and love the dimensions and price, but I'm really apprehensive about how well these things will hold up in the sun. I've only used a few colanders before(I use pond baskets 10" square and 13" square) and the colanders get super brittle after a year or two in the sun. I have pond baskets that are five years old and still going strong. Before I she'll out 8 bucks a container, I want to know I can get 4+ years out of it.

I would bet a shot of UV spray paint might help this. I use the big laguna pots but for a shallower system these might be awesome.

 

[aphid]

My rectangular colanders arrived! A mix of blue and orange ones. They are very sturdy.

15 1/4" x, 18", and 21 3/4".




The holes of the 15 1/4" are 6 millimeters across.




The holes of the 18" and 21 3/4" are 12 millimeters across, which is quite large. I may have to line the inside with weed blocking landscape mesh.

 

[Paulkellum]

Might want to paint outside with uv rated paint. Non uv threaded plastic in direct sun going be real breakable fast.

 

[aphid]

Might want to paint outside with uv rated paint. Non uv threaded plastic in direct sun going be real breakable fast.

I'm planning to. I don't like these colors. I will spray them with black UV resistant spray.

 

[nathanbs]

^^ Methinks Dario was referring to 'double basketed', Vance, hence the quote.

Can't air pruning be achieved with just one pond basket .... ? Why two? I don't think I've read a logical reason why to use 2 ...

We have probably all read that bigger is not necessarily better when it comes to growing pots so the idea is you start with an appropriate sized colander for the seedling and when the roots have filled the small colander instead of disturbing the roots and losing precious time on the growing clock you simply slip it into a larger one and fill with fast draining soil. Thus buying another 2-4 years before having to root prune

 

[Vance Wood]

We have probably all read that bigger is not necessarily better when it comes to growing pots so the idea is you start with an appropriate sized colander for the seedling and when the roots have filled the small colander instead of disturbing the roots and losing precious time on the growing clock you simply slip it into a larger one and fill with fast draining soil. Thus buying another 2-4 years before having to root prune

I know people practice this process in this manner but I find it self defeating in theory. Let me put a quick point on it and let's see what kind of answers we get. First of all I do not mean to demean anyone who uses, or is planing to use, the double colander method, a lot of things sound good until you follow them out to the logical end.

My question is this: Has anyone who has engaged in this method come to the theoretical point where they actually have to remove the tree from the second colander and root prune it? What did you do with the first colander? How did you deal with the roots that have grown through the first colander and now make up the core of your soil mass?

 

[Vance Wood]

The real benefit of using double baskets is that the roots have more room to run before being air pruned, but when you lift the smaller basket out of the larger to cut the roots back, you're leaving most of the root system undisturbed which allows the tree to continue growing without skipping a beat. Never done it but that's how it's been explained to me and it makes sense.

Yes air pruning can be achieved with one basket.

 

[daygan]

I know people practice this process in this manner but I find it self defeating in theory. Let me put a quick point on it and let's see what kind of answers we get. First of all I do not mean to demean anyone who uses, or is planing to use, the double colander method, a lot of things sound good until you follow them out to the logical end.

My question is this: Has anyone who has engaged in this method come to the theoretical point where they actually have to remove the tree from the second colander and root prune it? What did you do with the first colander? How did you deal with the roots that have grown through the first colander and now make up the core of your soil mass?

Vance, I know what you mean. I have a cherry tree that was grown in a collander for a season and then nested inside a larger plastic basin (in which I had made drainage holes). The collander is now stuck inside a mass of roots and will be a ... hassle ... to remove entirely. I will probably have to cut away everything outside of the collander. I wonder if just removing it from the collander to put it into the larger pot wouldn't have been better, as any "disturbance" would have amounted to no more than that of a slip pot. I'll let you know how things go this spring.

 

[Vance Wood]

Vance, I know what you mean. I have a cherry tree that was grown in a collander for a season and then nested inside a larger plastic basin (in which I had made drainage holes). The collander is now stuck inside a mass of roots and will be a ... hassle ... to remove entirely. I will probably have to cut away everything outside of the collander. I wonder if just removing it from the collander to put it into the larger pot wouldn't have been better, as any "disturbance" would have amounted to no more than that of a slip pot. I'll let you know how things go this spring.

This my friend is exactly my point. In an attempt to finesse a technique the so-called-system causes to occur a real problem that should have never taken place ----- in the first place. You are absolutely right. If you follow this program you wind up with a small colander in the middle of your soil mass, or you find you have to cut it out, disrupting a lot of roots in the process destroying any benefits you may have acquired up to this point. I have kept trees in one of my training planters as long as ten years with no ill effects. You remove the tree from the planter, or the colander as this case may be, and saw off or slice off portions of the soil mass that comes out of the container. Loosen up what is left and put it back in the same container or a bonsai pot or your left ear. You now have a root system that is fibrous and capable of almost any thing within reason.

 

[nathanbs]

I understand what you are saying completely and for one I have never done it so just discussing theory here. So here goes, to develop black pine with massive flare root pruning is necessary to eliminate downward roots and promote lateral roots thus stretching out the base of the tree. Now with the double colanders when they are both filled with roots it's my understanding that it is a good time to prune back to the root ball that's within the small colander anyways so it's no real problem. By the way the benefit of the colanders isn't for air pruning of the roots, it's to enable superfeeding whereupon you are slamming the tree with water, oxygen and nutrients

 

[Vance Wood]

I understand what you are saying completely and for one I have never done it so just discussing theory here. So here goes, to develop black pine with massive flare root pruning is necessary to eliminate downward roots and promote lateral roots thus stretching out the base of the tree. Now with the double colanders when they are both filled with roots it's my understanding that it is a good time to prune back to the root ball that's within the small colander anyways so it's no real problem. By the way the benefit if the colanders isn't for air pruning of the roots, it's to enable superfeeding whereupon you are slamming the tree with water, oxygen and nutrients

That's like saying rape is only an assault with a friendly weapon. It is what it is. Saying the benefit of the colanders isn't for air pruning? Maybe you should tell that to the roots, they are going to be air pruned anyway and superfeeding is possible in either case. If the idea is to allow the tree to expand laterally then why put it into a small colander in the first place? When time comes to make changes you are going to be disrupting everything that you have accomplished to this point.The flat colanders pictured seem to be a better idea.For those of you thinking of using the square colanders make sure you prop them up on blocks of wood so that the air reaches the bottom of the colanders.

 

[nathanbs]

That's like saying rape is only an assault with a friendly weapon. It is what it is. Saying the benefit of the colanders isn't for air pruning? Maybe you should tell that to the roots, they are going to be air pruned anyway and superfeeding is possible in either case. If the idea is to allow the tree to expand laterally then why put it into a small colander in the first place? When time comes to make changes you are going to be disrupting everything that you have accomplished to this point.The flat colanders pictured seem to be a better idea.For those of you thinking of using the square colanders make sure you prop them up on blocks of wood so that the air reaches the bottom of the colanders.

as mentioned earlier bigger isnt always better when it comes to pot size. One should always pot according to realistic root demand when propagating. A bigger pot means wasted soil, water, fertilizer and in a lot of cases slower growth as the soil stays wet longer when roots are not pulling water out of it because they are not there yet to pull the water out. This very commonly results in overwatering. I wasnt saying the purpose of the double colander was superfeeding I was saying that the purpose of colanders in general is super feeding, air pruning is a side effect.

 

[Vance Wood]

as mentioned earlier bigger isnt always better when it comes to pot size. One should always pot according to realistic root demand when propagating. A bigger pot means wasted soil, water, fertilizer and in a lot of cases slower growth as the soil stays wet longer when roots are not pulling water out of it because they are not there yet to pull the water out. This very commonly results in overwatering. I wasnt saying the purpose of the double colander was superfeeding I was saying that the purpose of colanders in general is super feeding, air pruning is a side effect.

But still: What do you do when you need to graduate your tree into a bonsai pot and the internal colander is no longer useful? You can't just pull the tree's roots out through the holes I guarantee that won't work. You have to do one of two things. Destroy the internal colander or prune the roots that have extended into the larger colander back to the smaller colander, abandoning the extended lateral growth you have developed in the process. This leaves the question as to why unanswered.

 

[Poink88]

Nathan,

I agree with Vance. I'll repeat my post #7...I do not see any advantage to double basket...only disadvantages.

 

[nathanbs]

But still: What do you do when you need to graduate your tree into a bonsai pot and the internal colander is no longer useful? You can't just pull the tree's roots out through the holes I guarantee that won't work. You have to do one of two things. Destroy the internal colander or prune the roots that have extended into the larger colander back to the smaller colander, abandoning the extended lateral growth you have developed in the process. This leaves the question as to why unanswered.

At this point the extended lateral roots have served their purpose and you would now prune these roots back to the point within the small colander anyways for building better root density, no different than what you do with your branches. Have you not seen JBP during repot where their roots are literally cut back to literally a "puck" or small "pad"?

 

[Paulkellum]

You could always just build yourself some I knocked out a bunch of these today trying get ready. for repotting time.