Rick Moquin
Omono
Thank you very much.
Ming Dynasty Reproduction Bonsai Pots
- Thread starter Anonymous User
- Start date
Thank you very much.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
The pot linked in this post is really more of a collector's item than a functional bonsai pot, which is fine. A little hype is good in selling collectors items. Collector's items are nice.
What Dale has, (I think--and he can speak for himself certainly), is an aversion to bad work and a fast buck, not this pot. There have been a glut of bonsai potters entering the market of late in the US. Some have absolutely no clue about what a good bonsai pot is or think they do, but really don't. I think his comments go more to that than the actual pot for sale here.
Some new potters haven't done the time, put in the work or built the reputation like potters like Dale (and there are others out there) have. Dale does what he does for a living, not a weekend hobby. I believe he cares deeply about his product, stands behind it and puts blood sweat and tears into it.
For me, that commitment translates into a potter's work. It shows. Look at any of the professional bonsai potters in the US and Europe...That's why a "one-off" pot made by an experienced potter with their own hands can outshine any cast or molded pot out there even one fired in a dragon kiln.
What Dale has, (I think--and he can speak for himself certainly), is an aversion to bad work and a fast buck, not this pot. There have been a glut of bonsai potters entering the market of late in the US. Some have absolutely no clue about what a good bonsai pot is or think they do, but really don't. I think his comments go more to that than the actual pot for sale here.
Some new potters haven't done the time, put in the work or built the reputation like potters like Dale (and there are others out there) have. Dale does what he does for a living, not a weekend hobby. I believe he cares deeply about his product, stands behind it and puts blood sweat and tears into it.
For me, that commitment translates into a potter's work. It shows. Look at any of the professional bonsai potters in the US and Europe...That's why a "one-off" pot made by an experienced potter with their own hands can outshine any cast or molded pot out there even one fired in a dragon kiln.
Rick Moquin
Omono
I understand fully but others need to chill as well. Dale can have quite an attitude at times, and that is what gets me riled up. I personally received a wise crack during an inquiry, that for someone who is in this full time, should never have made to a potential customer.
I love his work but his attitude leaves allot to be desired at times.
I love his work but his attitude leaves allot to be desired at times.
Anonymous User
Banned
Bill S
Masterpiece
Not going to reread from the beginning but I do believe that Dales issue if you call it one is that he has pots that are larger, more tree appropriate for many, and cheaper, and he sees people chiming in on how nice , cheap too and doesn't see your business. His pots by the way are very good. All he needs is an email with some photos, tree size, and what you vision, and he can provide a very nice pot for some really good prices.
But Rick you should admit that lately some of your replys aren't up to your usuall good standards, if not so be it, it's your rep.
And looky, Bretts has come to incite, anyone do bonsai anymore.
But Rick you should admit that lately some of your replys aren't up to your usuall good standards, if not so be it, it's your rep.
And looky, Bretts has come to incite, anyone do bonsai anymore.
Bill S
Masterpiece
And for those that think Ah HA - yes I do and I can prove it.
Show me yours, then bitch.
Show me yours, then bitch.
bretts
Shohin
- Messages
- 273
- Reaction score
- 8
The fact is Dave even came over to the Aussie site and suggested our potters should not be helping to teach the new
I had been asking for information on techniques. I have been doing pottery as an extension of my love of Bonsai for a couple of years on and off, I don't know who Dale thinks are the beginners asking for secrets before they have even made a pot. This discussion was about a well known technique of making cracks in clay. This discussion seems to have renewed Kioti's interest in this technique and he has made some fine ones. I have accomplished a couple of decent ones. I love the thought of being able to make a pot myself or the odd one for someone else but I believe that is as far as I go.
Dale left the thread in a Huff stating we know nothing of him or his work. It seems it is Dale that knows nothing about us.
I have listened to his complaints for a few years now and could drag up some other comments of his. I don't want one of his pots anymore. There are some other great potters that don't try to stop the progression of new potters in fact try to help them like our Pat Kenedy. I will buy thier pots.
Some potters call these things secrets as if a paragraph of information is the only thing that stands in the way of me making pots the same as theirs. I thought it was the qaulity of workmanship thats makes the pots great.
I had been asking for information on techniques. I have been doing pottery as an extension of my love of Bonsai for a couple of years on and off, I don't know who Dale thinks are the beginners asking for secrets before they have even made a pot. This discussion was about a well known technique of making cracks in clay. This discussion seems to have renewed Kioti's interest in this technique and he has made some fine ones. I have accomplished a couple of decent ones. I love the thought of being able to make a pot myself or the odd one for someone else but I believe that is as far as I go.
Dale left the thread in a Huff stating we know nothing of him or his work. It seems it is Dale that knows nothing about us.
I have listened to his complaints for a few years now and could drag up some other comments of his. I don't want one of his pots anymore. There are some other great potters that don't try to stop the progression of new potters in fact try to help them like our Pat Kenedy. I will buy thier pots.
Some potters call these things secrets as if a paragraph of information is the only thing that stands in the way of me making pots the same as theirs. I thought it was the qaulity of workmanship thats makes the pots great.
Anonymous User
Banned
Dale is a damn fine potter and I certainly would be proud to have his pots in my collection, they are high fired, high quality, and have high visual appeal. I have not purchased one yet, but I have met Dale and handled his pots, they are truly fine workmanship.
Robert's reproductions are not the pots that Dale makes, they are a different breed altogether, they are historical in the sense that they are Ming Dynasty reproductions fired in a historically significant kiln in China. They are a limited edition and they are numbered, they are quite simply, collector items and no one, especially Robert has claimed otherwise. I think he could have sold these pots for 45 bucks or higher easily, but he kept the price affordable for all.
Not apples to apples, but apples to ornages....Robert's pot will go on my display shelf, Dale's pot will hold a bonsai.
By the way, you can order Robert's pots at www.aobkobstore.com
Will
Robert's reproductions are not the pots that Dale makes, they are a different breed altogether, they are historical in the sense that they are Ming Dynasty reproductions fired in a historically significant kiln in China. They are a limited edition and they are numbered, they are quite simply, collector items and no one, especially Robert has claimed otherwise. I think he could have sold these pots for 45 bucks or higher easily, but he kept the price affordable for all.
Not apples to apples, but apples to ornages....Robert's pot will go on my display shelf, Dale's pot will hold a bonsai.
By the way, you can order Robert's pots at www.aobkobstore.com
Will
Last edited:
Klytus
Omono
I am always looking at local pots,if i need a pot i always look to the English offerings first.
I then look at imported selection pots and then the manufacturers,such as
http://www.china-yxceramic.com/
I find myself wondering who decides which pots will be purchased for distribution about the UK as these catalogues have some gems that never appear for purchase online in Great Britain.
Some of these designs look as though the potter doesn't like making them.
I don't want to be asking a potter to make a difficult pot or a pot he doesn't enjoy making.
I then look at imported selection pots and then the manufacturers,such as
http://www.china-yxceramic.com/
I find myself wondering who decides which pots will be purchased for distribution about the UK as these catalogues have some gems that never appear for purchase online in Great Britain.
Some of these designs look as though the potter doesn't like making them.
I don't want to be asking a potter to make a difficult pot or a pot he doesn't enjoy making.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
"I had been asking for information on techniques. I have been doing pottery as an extension of my love of Bonsai for a couple of years on and off, I don't know who Dale thinks are the beginners asking for secrets before they have even made a pot. This discussion was about a well known technique of making cracks in clay. This discussion seems to have renewed Kioti's interest in this technique and he has made some fine ones. I have accomplished a couple of decent ones. I love the thought of being able to make a pot myself or the odd one for someone else but I believe that is as far as I go.
Dale left the thread in a Huff stating we know nothing of him or his work. It seems it is Dale that knows nothing about us.
I have listened to his complaints for a few years now and could drag up some other comments of his. I don't want one of his pots anymore. There are some other great potters that don't try to stop the progression of new potters in fact try to help them like our Pat Kenedy. I will buy thier pots.
Some potters call these things secrets as if a paragraph of information is the only thing that stands in the way of me making pots the same as theirs. I thought it was the qaulity of workmanship thats makes the pots great."
Potters are quirky folks. They're alchemists, as well as artists. They're also a very individualistic bunch. Some of them don't want to give away the farm. I can understand that. I've seen more than one take objection to specific questions about their work. Their experience is theirs. It can take literally years to develop specific glazes and clay bodiees that look good, last and more importantly, sell. Telling a two year student how to do the same thing instantly without the trial and error defeats that work. They did it. Why should they explicitly tell how they got what they got for free to someone who might sell or give pots to friends? Some will tell, others won't.
Doesn't mean they're "stopping the progression of new potters." They are not providing short cuts around the things they themselves had to face. You could look at it this way--in not giving new potters specifics, they might even be helping by making newbies think their way through it. Actual experience counts for alot. Understanding WHY a glaze works is more valuable than a glaze recipe in the long run...It IS quality that counts and the mastery of workmanship is what professional potters are selling, regardless of whether they give away their knowledge.
Dale left the thread in a Huff stating we know nothing of him or his work. It seems it is Dale that knows nothing about us.
I have listened to his complaints for a few years now and could drag up some other comments of his. I don't want one of his pots anymore. There are some other great potters that don't try to stop the progression of new potters in fact try to help them like our Pat Kenedy. I will buy thier pots.
Some potters call these things secrets as if a paragraph of information is the only thing that stands in the way of me making pots the same as theirs. I thought it was the qaulity of workmanship thats makes the pots great."
Potters are quirky folks. They're alchemists, as well as artists. They're also a very individualistic bunch. Some of them don't want to give away the farm. I can understand that. I've seen more than one take objection to specific questions about their work. Their experience is theirs. It can take literally years to develop specific glazes and clay bodiees that look good, last and more importantly, sell. Telling a two year student how to do the same thing instantly without the trial and error defeats that work. They did it. Why should they explicitly tell how they got what they got for free to someone who might sell or give pots to friends? Some will tell, others won't.
Doesn't mean they're "stopping the progression of new potters." They are not providing short cuts around the things they themselves had to face. You could look at it this way--in not giving new potters specifics, they might even be helping by making newbies think their way through it. Actual experience counts for alot. Understanding WHY a glaze works is more valuable than a glaze recipe in the long run...It IS quality that counts and the mastery of workmanship is what professional potters are selling, regardless of whether they give away their knowledge.
I remember reading something a while back about how glazes, in particular certain colors, are for the most part trade secrets in the potter community. While some may be more free in sharing their "recipes", others may try to maintain some secrecy, particularly if they make a livelihood doing pottery for a living.
That doesn't bother me at all. A potter may have spent countless hours and dollars developing a particular "trademark" look, so why should they be pressured to share it with others? Businesses like Coca-Cola, KFC, Heinz 57, etc. maintain their secret recipes.
In any event, I've never met Dale in person and so far do not own one of his pots. However, I can say that he is a really nice guy. He took the time to help me out a lot on BT in posts and PMs on a number of questions I had, when he could have just about as easily ignored me. The internet is a funny thing in how people can come across online, but I would prefer to take more stock in his actions (i.e., helping out a newbie) than merely looking at his words which could easily be misinterpreted.
That doesn't bother me at all. A potter may have spent countless hours and dollars developing a particular "trademark" look, so why should they be pressured to share it with others? Businesses like Coca-Cola, KFC, Heinz 57, etc. maintain their secret recipes.
In any event, I've never met Dale in person and so far do not own one of his pots. However, I can say that he is a really nice guy. He took the time to help me out a lot on BT in posts and PMs on a number of questions I had, when he could have just about as easily ignored me. The internet is a funny thing in how people can come across online, but I would prefer to take more stock in his actions (i.e., helping out a newbie) than merely looking at his words which could easily be misinterpreted.
Klytus
Omono
Ashes from human bones could be a secret ingredient.
pauldogx
Mame
Pillock. You know, you may have a point though......
Klytus
Omono
It isn't too hard to imagine a Chin Emperor issuing an edict,'Enemies of the state shall be brought before me as a head on a platter!'
Tiring of the constant supply of gory heads he may well have been advised that a thing of beauty could be fashioned that would delight and endure.
In England they placed them atop poles so that the woe that betides traitors could be enjoyed by many.
In South America they shrunk them as a means of preserving.
In Papua they eat the brain.
But what could be more civilised than breezing through your hall of treasured enemies and enjoying the subtle play of colour and light.
Unfavourable in life but a masterpiece in death.
I wonder.
Tiring of the constant supply of gory heads he may well have been advised that a thing of beauty could be fashioned that would delight and endure.
In England they placed them atop poles so that the woe that betides traitors could be enjoyed by many.
In South America they shrunk them as a means of preserving.
In Papua they eat the brain.
But what could be more civilised than breezing through your hall of treasured enemies and enjoying the subtle play of colour and light.
Unfavourable in life but a masterpiece in death.
I wonder.
bretts
Shohin
- Messages
- 273
- Reaction score
- 8
It is quite bizar how some people read plain english and come out with a totally different understanding of what was written.
This was not about a trade mark glaze that took a long time to devellope it was about the widely used Crack technique and or various glaze recipies. It was not about asking a potter for his secrets it was a bout a potter telling another that they should not tell others.
It was about winging about other potters selling at different prices wether cheaper or more expensive and the supposed solution of rigging the competition in thier favour at events.
Take it as you will but that is what I have seen in the last few years. It was not always that way!
This was not about a trade mark glaze that took a long time to devellope it was about the widely used Crack technique and or various glaze recipies. It was not about asking a potter for his secrets it was a bout a potter telling another that they should not tell others.
It was about winging about other potters selling at different prices wether cheaper or more expensive and the supposed solution of rigging the competition in thier favour at events.
Take it as you will but that is what I have seen in the last few years. It was not always that way!
Anonymous User
Banned
Actually, it was about Robert Steven's Ming Dynasty Reproduction pots. 
More information on these pots can be found at www.aobkobstore.com (The AoB / KoB Store).
Will
More information on these pots can be found at www.aobkobstore.com (The AoB / KoB Store).
Will
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
"It is quite bizar how some people read plain english and come out with a totally different understanding of what was written.
This was not about a trade mark glaze that took a long time to devellope it was about the widely used Crack technique and or various glaze recipies."
It is quite bizarre that some people whine about not being able to get blood from a stone. You might want to ask another potter who's more amenable if you fail to get information about "a widely used crack technique." If the info is so "widely available" then someone else more willing to share it probably will, or perhaps, the info isn't as public domain as you think it is.
Jeez Louise, so Dale bitches about competition and fairs. So what?! To paraphrase Claude Raines "I'm SHOCKED, SHOCKED, I tell you, to discover a cranky bonsai artist..."
This was not about a trade mark glaze that took a long time to devellope it was about the widely used Crack technique and or various glaze recipies."
It is quite bizarre that some people whine about not being able to get blood from a stone. You might want to ask another potter who's more amenable if you fail to get information about "a widely used crack technique." If the info is so "widely available" then someone else more willing to share it probably will, or perhaps, the info isn't as public domain as you think it is.
Jeez Louise, so Dale bitches about competition and fairs. So what?! To paraphrase Claude Raines "I'm SHOCKED, SHOCKED, I tell you, to discover a cranky bonsai artist..."
