My Japanese Red Pine

[Dav4]

Ha! Just wait until you decandle it! Everyone will be saying you killed it!

Wait until after July 4 if you can.

I've de-candled as late as July 15th and still had 2" long needles, though it was much less ramified back then. Having said that, it'll probably get done on the 4th.

 

[bwaynef]

I've got an injector that I haven't installed yet this year. I didn't notice all that much difference last year (and didn't like leaving a bucket of fertilizer-solution open for all the mosquitoes east of the Mississippi to set up shop), but it was handy not to have to fool with a separate pass of fertilizing. I think I'll add some fish emulsion back to my regimen. (I wonder if its safe to do this during my lunch break.)

I'm glad the apex looks like its going to pull through for you. It seems extremely happy.

Full sun?

 

[thumblessprimate1]

Dave, have you ever considered growing this tree taller?

 

[Dav4]

I've got an injector that I haven't installed yet this year. I didn't notice all that much difference last year (and didn't like leaving a bucket of fertilizer-solution open for all the mosquitoes east of the Mississippi to set up shop), but it was handy not to have to fool with a separate pass of fertilizing. I think I'll add some fish emulsion back to my regimen. (I wonder if its safe to do this during my lunch break.)

I'm glad the apex looks like its going to pull through for you. It seems extremely happy.

Full sun?

I use an old plastic kitty litter bucket with a lid for the liquid ferts. I drilled a hole just big enough for the rubber hose to pass through...no mosquito larvae so far. I give as much full sun as I can in my yard, which is direct sun from 11am until about 4pm.

 

[Dav4]

Dave, have you ever considered growing this tree taller?

Actually, I've been trying to make the tree shorter. That's how I nearly tore the apex off...trying to compress it down without having the wire in the right place.

 

[M. Frary]

I've a question about these trees. What cold hardiness are they?

 

[Djtommy]

I've a question about these trees. What cold hardiness are they?

Red pine supposed to be 1 of the more cold hardy ones, more then white pine.
Thats what ive been told once by a bonsaiist in sapporo hokaido. Black pine not possible there, white pine was on the edge of ok, not ok but red pine was fine.

This is a cool tree!

 

[Dav4]

I've a question about these trees. What cold hardiness are they?

Yes, JRP are very cold hardy, definitely down to zone 4 and perhaps even zone 3.

 

[0soyoung]

Yes, JRP are very cold hardy, definitely down to zone 4 and perhaps even zone 3.

Wow. Typhoons in the near-arctic?

 

[Dav4]

Wow. Typhoons in the near-arctic?

Hmmm, not sure what that means. From what I recall, Dirr has them listed as a solid zone 4 that might extend into 3...his words. I don't have the book in front of me, though.

 

[0soyoung]

Hmmm, not sure what that means. From what I recall, Dirr has them listed as a solid zone 4 that might extend into 3...his words. I don't have the book in front of me, though.

No, you are correct. Adair (aka Boon?) has been telling us that the reason JBPs can be decandled is because of typhoons where they grow. Your note about their hardiness surprised me, but I looked it up and you are right.
So, I wonder what the explanation is for them to be treatable just like JBP. Do you suppose it has nothing to do with typhoons or do typhoons really hit Hokkaido and the coast of northern China?

 

[Adair M]

Japanese Black and Red pine cross pollinate. So they may have obtained the trait that way.

Doesn't explain why Virginia Pine can be decandled, though.

 

[0soyoung]

Japanese Black and Red pine cross pollinate. So they may have obtained the trait that way.

So, you are saying that all red pine is just a hybrid black pine - right?

Doesn't explain why Virginia Pine can be decandled, though.

But hurricanes are just typhoons in the Atlantic. There are no naturally occurring double flush pines on the West coast nor in Europe - just in typhoon/hurricane territory. On first blush the tropical storm connection seems laughable. But, ...

Fascinating ...


Doesn't explain why tornados don't make for double flush pines, though, or are there double flush species native to Alabama and Oklahoma?

 

[garywood]

0, these are things to think about. But, Typhoons aren't the only calamity that affects pines that multiple flush. One other co-adaption is Pine Tip Moth in warmer climates. There are several pines in the southern U.S. that can produce multiple shoots.

 

[M. Frary]

Yes, JRP are very cold hardy, definitely down to zone 4 and perhaps even zone 3.

All right. If I somehow procured one,in my climate and shorter growing season,would I be able to force 2 flushes of growth or would it be more like a Scots or Mugo pine and get a single flush of growth?

 

[Adair M]

M Frary, you could get two flushes of growth. Your growing season is shorter, so you would decandle earlier than those of us in longer growing season climates.

Osoyoung, there are Virginia Pine here in GA. By the time the Hurricanes reach us where we are, they're tropical depressions and dump huge amounts of rain. We get tornados, but the knock down or snap trunks of trees. They generally don't have the sustained winds that just damage new growth. Candle tip moths? Yep. Got 'em here in spades.

Are all JRP hybrids with JBP? I have no clue. But they do hybridize. Naturally. I don't know which one is dominant. Sometimes it can be hard to distinguish between the two. The color and shape of the buds is used. Boon had at least one in his garden that I've seen.

JBP is a coastal tree. JRP is found in higher elevations. JWP is found on the highest elevations.

 

[0soyoung]

JBP is a coastal tree. JRP is found in higher elevations. JWP is found on the highest elevations.

Maybe so, but JRP (zones 3 - 7) are more cold hardy than JWP (zones 4 - 7) !

 

[Adair M]

The trees are found where they're found, Oso. They don't give a flip about your zones.

 

[M. Frary]

Hey! No need to tussle over this fellas.
I looked at a couple of nice dwarf white pines this spring but was afraid they couldn't handle my winters.
I ask because there are a limited amount of trees that are used in bonsai that can survive up here.
Always looking toward expanding my species list.

 

[Dav4]

Wow, it's been a long time since I updated this thread. This tree unfortunately got hit with a significant needle cast infection this past spring that really hit the cascading branch hard, along with a few of the other branches in the mid canopy area. Several of the smaller branches on the cascade died and almost all of the needles were affected. I confirmed the diagnosis with Adair and started spraying with daconil and have applied clearys granules several times. I brought it to a club meeting where Jaun Andrade was headlining and he advised against de-candling the weaker, heavily affected branches, but thinning and de-candling the stronger, healthy growth. The good news is that the cascading branch hasn't gotten any weaker this season, but it looks like hell. Jaun suggested leaving the infected needles alone and allow them to fall off on their own. He also said that he believes this is one of those collected JRP/JBP hybrids, mainly because the bark is so good and JBP-like, but the foliage is clearly the softer, lighter green needles of a JRP..... You can see in the first close up what the untouched foliage looks like, and in the second that the tree is having a descent second push. Here's to a better spring push next year.