My tree fell out of it's pot :(

[Redwood Ryan]

Hey all, I had a Chinese Elm, Bald Cypress and a few other trees sitting in my greenhouse about a week ago. The greenhouse apparently was weighted too much on the top and it fell over in the strong wind. My trees all fell out of their pots. Do they stand a chance of living? I would especially love for my Chinese Elm to make it. I trunk chopped this little guy. I saw he had tons of white roots when I picked up the rootball. Once I saw the greenhouse had fallen, I scooped all the trees back up and filled the pots with the soil that was knocked out. Think my trees stand a chance? Here is that elm, btw:

Thanks!

Ryan

 

[mcpesq817]

That's happened to me a few times, and each time I did exactly what you did and my tree survived. Just have to make sure you catch them quickly, and that they haven't sat out of the pot for a significantly long period of time under harsh conditions.

So, I wouldn't worry. It's not like you can do much at this point anyway.

 

[Bill S]

Ah Grasshoppers, this should not ever have been an issue, for you should have had the trees secured to the pot so this can't happen. Check for repotting article, Chris Johnston has a good one somewhere, worth the read for sure. In the article he shows how to do a really nice job or wiring in a tree to the pot.

You may say that wiring a tree to the pot keeps the tree only in the pot. This may be true for a newly potted tree, but once the root making machine gets going the roots will hold most of the soil in as well. Yes I have had my share of knocked over trees be it squirrell or my daughter or friends, and typically no problems.

As to your trees, I guess as said, it will be detirmined how dry the roots got waiting for you to rescue them, if they were still white and good looking then you will probably be ok , THIS TIME. You can still run wire down thru the drainage holes and tye them in from the top, if you get creative you can even hide the wire, then next time tye them in properly. Now go outside and protect your trees, tye them in.
Good Luck, hope they make it.

Might also want to stake that greenhouse to the ground.

 

[milehigh_7]

I was going to join in the misery by saying that one of my hackberrys blew over in the 50mph gusts but then reading Bill's post I will just keep my mouth shut so I don't look dumber than I am. ;-)

 

[mcpesq817]

I figured I would get scolded for not tying my trees into pots I tie all my trees down into bonsai pots, but rarely tie them into nursery type containers unless the root mass is too small to anchor the tree into the pot. I find that in most cases, the container size, soil mass, weight and root system are adequate to keep the tree secure.

 

[Bill S]

I guess my follow up would be not to make anyone feel like a dum dum, you know doodoo occurs. Once we start working a piece of material there is an investment, with all the other things we do along the bonsai pathway tying it into whatever you are growing it in, is pretty easy and not too time consuming.
I realize in the case put forward it was a wind big enough to toss the greenhouse, not much you can do when you get to this stage of the game. As well as soil loss depending on stage of root growth, or how recently it had been repotted, either way tied in or not if recently potted you would probably loose the soil - good luck, and try to give them optimal recovery conditions, ie. shade, humidity, less work in the near future, etc.

 

[Victrinia Ensor]

Interesting... I don't think that's always true... Let's take some of the Japanese masterpeices... I can almost guarantee you that they are not... or how else would they be able to swap them from pot to pot just prior to a show?

However... that being said... it's important to know that the main risk is waiting for the tree to "grab" the pot as it fills the pot after being root worked. (Not that you don't know this Bill... I say it for the benefit of others. ) So there can be alternatives to securing the tree in the pot without traditionally tieing it in. Though in truth I think that smaller trees benefit from the security of being tied in.

As an example, at Elandan when moving trees to a different pot or settling them in for the first time, we don't tie them in. If needs be, we tie them over. So the wire will generally go around the outside of the pot and not in it. Sometimes, depending on the pot, this will require the use of a little bit of wood to add some stability, but most times not. Then when the tree has grabbed the pot, the wire is removed. Now I will say we are generally talking about larger than average trees here, so the weight of them is considerable. Blow over isn't much of a risk.

I tie in smaller trees if they are in shallow bonsai pots. But on the flip side, my satsuki is not tied in. It's size and the rootball did not require it. I'm not cavalier with it... it really just didn't need it.

Food for thought...

Kindest regards,

Victrinia

 

[Bill S]

Ahh ya caught me on a few of the exceptions. But you guys often deal with the exceptions, mine was geared more to the novice as well.
Some of those Japanese show tree slip pots bringing the whole root mass in one shot to a show pot, would be a well rooted tree for the most part, and probably wouldn't be a huge issue, bet you get to play with plenty of that kind of trees, am I sounding jelous yet.

I'd still count tied over as tied in.

As much as it may have sounded like a scolding, I'd bet a couple of guys will tie in more of there stuff, if nothing else just to be safer, that was my goal.

Maybe it should have been more of a reminder that big winds do come, and we even bolt out houses to the foundations so they don't blow away. Stake down that greenhouse please before the next big blow.

 

[Victrinia Ensor]

I totally agree with the "better safe than sorry" route! People who aren't experianced with such things should always err on the side of caution until their experiance allows them to do otherwise.

I generally mention such things to keep newer learner's minds open to the eventual reality of things. Too often the thing that hampers their advancement is fear... so teach a healthy respect and give confidence a reasonable place to grow from.

Bill... when you come back to Elandan... I'll put you infront of something lovely to get to play with.

Yours most kindly,

Victrinia

 

[irene_b]

Big Rawks placed on and around them....We don't need no stinking wire!!!
Mom
(In very Rebel Mood)

 

[Victrinia Ensor]

(In very Rebel Mood)

Clearly.... lol

*muah*

BBG

 

[Bill S]

One of these days Victrinia, one of these days. If for no other reason to see your corner of the world, from pix I've seen, it's got a little something going for it. Wouldn't mind seeing the gardens there either. My past experiance w/ Daniel was out this way.

 

[JasonG]

Every tree in the shows in Japan are tied in. That is the basic rule in bonsai, every tree regardless of size gets tied in. We have trees that are 4 man trees, they get tied in. It is the only way to assure that the tree will be stable and one with the pot. No other way will give you that. Tying the out side of the pot will never be as stable as tying inside. Plain and simple

I have learned the "proper way" of tying in trees from Ryan N, and I assure you they do not budge at all. 200 lb trees, in monster size pots to shohin in a tiny pots, there will never be an instance where the tree won't be tied in, atleast when doing it right.

 

[milehigh_7]

Ahh ya caught me on a few of the exceptions. But you guys often deal with the exceptions, mine was geared more to the novice as well.

...

As much as it may have sounded like a scolding, I'd bet a couple of guys will tie in more of there stuff, if nothing else just to be safer, that was my goal.

Maybe it should have been more of a reminder that big winds do come, and we even bolt out houses to the foundations so they don't blow away. Stake down that greenhouse please before the next big blow.

Novice here and point taken! I don't mind being scolded if that is what is needed. No worries and speaking for myself, I am ALWAYS open to teaching.

 

[milehigh_7]

...
I have learned the "proper way" of tying in trees from Ryan N, and I assure you they do not budge at all. 200 lb trees, in monster size pots to shohin in a tiny pots, there will never be an instance where the tree won't be tied in, atleast when doing it right.

Jason,

You should consider making a youtube video tutorial of this technique. Teaching us would be a great way for you to cement what you have learned. We would all benefit that way.

 

[Victrinia Ensor]

Every tree in the shows in Japan are tied in. That is the basic rule in bonsai, every tree regardless of size gets tied in. We have trees that are 4 man trees, they get tied in. It is the only way to assure that the tree will be stable and one with the pot. No other way will give you that. Tying the out side of the pot will never be as stable as tying inside. Plain and simple

I have learned the "proper way" of tying in trees from Ryan N, and I assure you they do not budge at all. 200 lb trees, in monster size pots to shohin in a tiny pots, there will never be an instance where the tree won't be tied in, atleast when doing it right.

Glad to see you changed your mind about posting... I'm very intrigued. Maybe you should start a thread about the technique.

Kindest regards,

Victrinia

 

[greerhw]

All trees no matter what they are potted in should be wired in, no exceptions and tight, so that they won't move if you push on the trunk, rule number one in bonsai. If any of my trees are loose in the pot or container, I get a scolding from Marco.

keep it green,
Harry

 

[JasonG]

Jason,

You should consider making a youtube video tutorial of this technique. Teaching us would be a great way for you to cement what you have learned. We would all benefit that way.

Glad to see you changed your mind about posting... I'm very intrigued. Maybe you should start a thread about the technique.

Kindest regards,

Victrinia

I still lurk just to see the dead bodies flying out of the trian wreckage!! Just can't help it. As to posting videos and all that jazz......Nah, you guys should come out and study with him starting in June when his studio opens up. Learn from the man himself.... you guys would be doing the biggest favor to your bonsai skills more so than you could ever imagine or think is possible.

All trees no matter what they are potted in should be wired in, no exceptions and tight, so that they won't move if you push on the trunk, rule number one in bonsai. If any of my trees are loose in the pot or container, I get a scolding from Marco.

keep it green,
Harry

AMEN~!!!!!!! Just like putting a shoe on, you must tie it to your foot or else it will flop and slide around. Same thing with a tree in a pot, period.

Ok, now I am outta here.

 

[Victrinia Ensor]

I always find emphatic insistence amusing... I can tell you that the sky will not fall if one does not. Nor is one less of a bonsai practitioner for not. 50 years and 600 trees can't be wrong. Because I can assure you not one of the trees Daniel owns is wired-in in the traditional sense. I don't know what to say infront of that kind of evidence except that there are obviously more options in the world than a black and white one that says I am right and you are wrong, or vice versa.

I think there is room for more that one way to do this work. I'm very open to learning new things, so I look forward to hearing more about what Jason has mentioned...

Kindest regards,

Victrinia

 

[Victrinia Ensor]

I still lurk just to see the dead bodies flying out of the trian wreckage!! Just can't help it. As to posting videos and all that jazz......Nah, you guys should come out and study with him starting in June when his studio opens up. Learn from the man himself.... you guys would be doing the biggest favor to your bonsai skills more so than you could ever imagine or think is possible.



AMEN~!!!!!!! Just like putting a shoe on, you must tie it to your foot or else it will flop and slide around. Same thing with a tree in a pot, period.

Ok, now I am outta here.

Well there you have it....

V