opinion of my pinion
- Thread starter Woodland Spirit
- Start date
Woodland Spirit
Chumono
Maybe it is Methuselah?
Whatever is the case, this tree is one of the oldest. I didn't think it was THE oldest but there are two in the area and one has no trail to it but it is being checked on.
Correction:
It can't be Methuselah. Wrong location.
Whatever is the case, this tree is one of the oldest. I didn't think it was THE oldest but there are two in the area and one has no trail to it but it is being checked on.
Correction:
It can't be Methuselah. Wrong location.
Woodland Spirit
Chumono
OK, as I said somewhere, I've been growing full size trees most of my life.
So I was going along fussing about this wannabe bonsai when it came to mind that if this was nursery stock I would know exactly what to do. So until it has roots it is nursery stock. Just a plain old pine. It's my mini Christmas tree project.
I ha' saved a few of cut off Christmas trees.
It's not in good condition and it's chances are slim, but it's worth trying. And if it dies I'll make a morning glory grow on its little skeleton.
A hydroponic jar of bio- available nutrients and root promoting compounds in good old water. I leaf feed it with a very week solution designed for conifer.
And keep it cool.
So I was going along fussing about this wannabe bonsai when it came to mind that if this was nursery stock I would know exactly what to do. So until it has roots it is nursery stock. Just a plain old pine. It's my mini Christmas tree project.
I ha' saved a few of cut off Christmas trees.
It's not in good condition and it's chances are slim, but it's worth trying. And if it dies I'll make a morning glory grow on its little skeleton.
A hydroponic jar of bio- available nutrients and root promoting compounds in good old water. I leaf feed it with a very week solution designed for conifer.
And keep it cool.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
It is at almost zombie stage. I have seen the demise of many Pines in my day and this one appears to be going that direction.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
I know you're joking, but collecting trees from the wild is not something to be taken lightly and it carries a lot of responsibility with it. Permission from landowners is critical in digging up a tree, especially on federal or state park lands (where significant restrictions are in place that can carry stiff fines and even jail time).
Also FWIW, "honest, true" bonsai has no real price point. There is complete crap at the $2000 level, just as there is at the $100 level. Telling the junk from the jewels takes some time.
Woodland Spirit
Chumono
So it should, but for some reason when I attached the word bonsai to it I didn't know what to do. It shall go to greenhouse by day and inside by night until spring because some fool didn't let it go dormant. Hopefully it can still get a wink of sleep before spring.
I had some mixed up ideas, and no doubt do still, about bonsai and how to get from seedling to real thing. As Vance wood said, this has resulted in an even more close to death tree. Strange how the brain works, or doesn't work. All because of a word. Now it's true a tree becoming ready for bonsai is not cared for the same as yard tree. But this is nearly without root. First priority is to get roots so it can live.
I have saved Christmas trees whose needles were brown almost entirely. It is rare to have one so bad live though.
So like I said. If it dies I plant a morning glory to grow on the poor trees bones.
jkl2
Sapling
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Woody . . . We suddenly have begun to approach the thot of collecting trees. In your neophyte-ness, I hope you understand that ALL plants are protected unless you own them or they are on your own property. In every other case, you need permission to collect. All land is owned by someone or some thing -- person or organization. Permission can be easy to get, hard to get, or impossible.
As a rule of thumb, any land associated with the word "Park" is in the impossible category. (Exception: when a local park's landscaping is being changed, the old plants may be available.) Plants on corporate land often are in the "hard" category because companies are terrified of lawsuits from injury, etc. Lands own by a person vary.
Non-"Park" government land varies. Some have a regular permitting process (state and national forests, Bureau of Land Management land, etc. -- except "Wilderness Areas.)"
So . . . ask before you dig.
As a rule of thumb, any land associated with the word "Park" is in the impossible category. (Exception: when a local park's landscaping is being changed, the old plants may be available.) Plants on corporate land often are in the "hard" category because companies are terrified of lawsuits from injury, etc. Lands own by a person vary.
Non-"Park" government land varies. Some have a regular permitting process (state and national forests, Bureau of Land Management land, etc. -- except "Wilderness Areas.)"
So . . . ask before you dig.
Rid
Shohin
A few levels of irony there
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
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I enjoy the doing aspects of bonsai, the horticulture gives me pleasure, I enjoy it even if most of my trees are not what would be considered "good bonsai", they are all in some phase of "becoming bonsai". Its the process I enjoy, getting a "finished tree" is the end goal, but the enjoyment is in the process for me.
I have been dabbling with bonsai for 30+ years, the first 20 I was at best a dabbler. At some point a decade ago, I looked at pictures I took of my trees, and saw that my trees looked like sticks or shrubs in pots, not bonsai, not an image of trees in nature, no visual, emotional or artistic impact. That's when I decided to join a bonsai society and take some classes, because I was clearly missing the point. Now, I have a collection that looks like a collection in early stages of becoming bonsai, but definitely with much more potential than my collection 20 years ago. My early attitude, 20 years ago, was I knew enough from books and inter1net. Now I realize I needed hands on in person instruction. Now I think I am getting it. If at all possible, attend at least a few meetings a year of a bonsai club, or attend a show, take a class, get some hands on if you can. Even if it is only once every couple years, but try to get some hands on instruction. Just a suggestion. It might be quite difficult given where you live.
You are right, what you know about growing nursery trees is critical, it really helps. Young tress, or trees early in bonsai development are treated more like nursery trees than anything else. There are bonsai specific techniques applied to nursery stock, but what you know about keeping nursery trees healthy will greatly help you with bonsai, most of the horticulture is the same.
A caution I'd like to share, as it was a mistake I personally kept repeating the first 20 years of my journey with bonsai, I kept applying technique for near finished trees, getting ready for display, to stock early in training. Most of the articles you read will be about the techniques for preparing nearly "finished" tress. There are far fewer articles about training early in development material, you need to keep an eye out for these. These are the articles that will help you develop your bonsai the most. A start is the articles written by Brent Walston, at Evergreen Garden Works. Brent specializes in raising young stock and preparing it for eventually becoming bonsai. I also have bought many of my trees from him. His grafted pines have uniformly good low grafts, excellent material for becoming bonsai. He also propagates many tree cultivars from cuttings, and prunes with intent for them to be used for bonsai. http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/articles.htm
I really hope you go back and get some of the old, but still tiny pinion pine seedlings. Because they are small, you will have a better chance of getting enough roots that they will survive the collection process. Then get them established and growing. Some great pines that are on the show circuit in Japan were indeed raised from seed. Look at articles on raising Japanese Black Pine from seed. You will see that in the nursery can, or planted in a grow bed, they allow the trees to grow out, to maybe 5 or even 10 feet, then cut back to the 8 or 10 or 24 inch tree they had in mind, then select certain branches to grow out again to 5 or 10 feet, then cut back again. So if collecting a 10 foot pinion is not possible because of the long roots, collect some small pinion, use a cycle of growing out and cutting back like they do with Japanese Black pines to get the large trunks, with good taper, and trunks with interesting changes in direction. I think pinion is one of the USA native pines that has good possible use in bonsai. And it is native to your area, Go for it.
I have been dabbling with bonsai for 30+ years, the first 20 I was at best a dabbler. At some point a decade ago, I looked at pictures I took of my trees, and saw that my trees looked like sticks or shrubs in pots, not bonsai, not an image of trees in nature, no visual, emotional or artistic impact. That's when I decided to join a bonsai society and take some classes, because I was clearly missing the point. Now, I have a collection that looks like a collection in early stages of becoming bonsai, but definitely with much more potential than my collection 20 years ago. My early attitude, 20 years ago, was I knew enough from books and inter1net. Now I realize I needed hands on in person instruction. Now I think I am getting it. If at all possible, attend at least a few meetings a year of a bonsai club, or attend a show, take a class, get some hands on if you can. Even if it is only once every couple years, but try to get some hands on instruction. Just a suggestion. It might be quite difficult given where you live.
You are right, what you know about growing nursery trees is critical, it really helps. Young tress, or trees early in bonsai development are treated more like nursery trees than anything else. There are bonsai specific techniques applied to nursery stock, but what you know about keeping nursery trees healthy will greatly help you with bonsai, most of the horticulture is the same.
A caution I'd like to share, as it was a mistake I personally kept repeating the first 20 years of my journey with bonsai, I kept applying technique for near finished trees, getting ready for display, to stock early in training. Most of the articles you read will be about the techniques for preparing nearly "finished" tress. There are far fewer articles about training early in development material, you need to keep an eye out for these. These are the articles that will help you develop your bonsai the most. A start is the articles written by Brent Walston, at Evergreen Garden Works. Brent specializes in raising young stock and preparing it for eventually becoming bonsai. I also have bought many of my trees from him. His grafted pines have uniformly good low grafts, excellent material for becoming bonsai. He also propagates many tree cultivars from cuttings, and prunes with intent for them to be used for bonsai. http://www.evergreengardenworks.com/articles.htm
I really hope you go back and get some of the old, but still tiny pinion pine seedlings. Because they are small, you will have a better chance of getting enough roots that they will survive the collection process. Then get them established and growing. Some great pines that are on the show circuit in Japan were indeed raised from seed. Look at articles on raising Japanese Black Pine from seed. You will see that in the nursery can, or planted in a grow bed, they allow the trees to grow out, to maybe 5 or even 10 feet, then cut back to the 8 or 10 or 24 inch tree they had in mind, then select certain branches to grow out again to 5 or 10 feet, then cut back again. So if collecting a 10 foot pinion is not possible because of the long roots, collect some small pinion, use a cycle of growing out and cutting back like they do with Japanese Black pines to get the large trunks, with good taper, and trunks with interesting changes in direction. I think pinion is one of the USA native pines that has good possible use in bonsai. And it is native to your area, Go for it.
jomawa
Shohin
*****Dun ta dahhhhhhhh***** "It's short answer time! Uuuh, yep!" (The technique I saw in my researching either on bnut or other internet website was "simply" remove a wedge from the trunk, then secure it back together to heal.) If you were wanting to see more on it I would suggest starting with "tapering bonsai trunk" on google or google images. If that didn't work I would maybe go with "removing wood to make a tapered trunk bonsai". It is truly amazing that when you give google enough information in a specific (logical) manner, it will know from just a little bit of info what you want, and happily spits it up for you to research till you're heart's content.
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Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Yes you can but only if the tree is growing healthy and vigorous, and you know where to cut it and when. You just can't walk up to the tree and cut it off. Unless you get really lucky you will probably kill the tree.
Woodland Spirit
Chumono
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Short answer time--ALOT harder than it sounds and not the typical way to do it.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Lol. I think people misunderstand Jomawa a bit....though not here for sure....
I like Jomawa....so don't get offended J.
But possibly, short bus time!
Lol. I can only say that cuz Jomawa is as out there as me!
Sorce
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Can't sit here.....
Seats taken....
I'm your Jenny on that bus Jomawa!
Sorce
Seats taken....
I'm your Jenny on that bus Jomawa!
Sorce
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Merely pointing out that there is a difference between Internet searches and actually doing things.
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
Probably referring to poinkys Frankenstein tree.
Not as easy as it seems. Not a simple procedure at all cutting a wedge out and getting everything to mesh. And the results are let's say not exactly pretty.
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
If there are results at all...
