Ordered Turface, and I got Turface

[subnet_rx]

Instead of the larger clay particles, I basically got what looks like sand. Anyone know of some use I can make of the 50 lb. bag that I now own of this?

http://turface.com/turface-products/infield-conditioners/turface-quick-dry

 

[Klytus]

Maybe as a medium or admixture for growing moss?

 

[DaveV]

You don't want the quick dry. MVP also make a quick dry and a regular version - this is the one that I use.

 

[noissee]

I just bought MVP a few days ago. Haven't opened it yet. Hopefully it won't be sand. It doesn't say quick dry though.

 

[Tachigi]

MVP is MVP and Quick Dry is Quick Dry...and never the twain shall meet. These are two different products MVP having the largest partial size. When you sift out a 50 lb bag you end up on average with about 3 gallons of usable material. So your gonna have a lot of waste.

Subnet, we sift a lot of MVP here, and our waste fines (sand) we add as an amendment to our field grown trees. Wonderful for holding nutrients for later release. If your growing in the ground then your cool...if not, donate it to your local little league who I am sure will be most appreciative in these bad economic times.

I know this won't help, but look on the bright side. You could have ordered the wrong size akadama

 

[DaveV]

Your right Tom, ordering the wrong size akadama or the soft stuff would have been a bummer

 

[DaveV]

Subnet, Ace Hardware caries Schults multi-purpose soil conditioner. I believe this is almost identical to Turface - I have both.

 

[subnet_rx]

Yeah, I can get the MVP, that's what I have gotten every year. I guess I just forgot to specify, and they picked this one. I guess I will try it as an amendment to my soil conditioners for ground-planted trees. Even though, it holds moisture pretty well already in most areas of my yard. Hard clay is my biggest problem for ground-planted stuff.

 

[sfhellwig]

I'm just going to mention this and not insist on it but you do not want to add a mineral particle to a clay soil in the hopes of loosening it up. Now this is what they beat into out heads here with our SE Kansas clay but the only amendment for heavy clay is organic matter. The clay is so fine that any particle (usually sand) is just swallowed up and coated by the clay. I've been told it requires 80% sand amendment to lighten a clay soil. This is per the county extension agent. I also found this out after I poured all of my fines into my garden, then sanded it.

I keep my fines for when I need a loose, sand-like mixture for various potted material.

 

[Rick Moquin]

I'm terribly sorry...

<<I ordered turface and got turface>> Did you expect anything else??

Turface MVP is what you want

 

[subnet_rx]

I'd like to come back to this to get some opinions. I've been reading Peter Adams book on Japanese Maples and he uses 2 parts aquarium gravel and 2 parts sand in his soiless mix. What kind of sand is he mixing in?

 

[Tachigi]

I'd like to come back to this to get some opinions. I've been reading Peter Adams book on Japanese Maples and he uses 2 parts aquarium gravel and 2 parts sand in his soiless mix. What kind of sand is he mixing in?

No telling ...his books were written sometime ago.... soil mediums have been ramped up since then. If I were to guess...Peter would advocate pool sand size #5 or lava

 

[subnet_rx]

Actually, this one was republished in 2006. It's basically 2 parts smooth aquarium gravel, 2 parts rough gravel, and 2 parts sand + grit.

 

[Tachigi]

Actually, this one was republished in 2006. It's basically 2 parts smooth aquarium gravel, 2 parts rough gravel, and 2 parts sand + grit.

I have both published issues...don't ask its a long story

Both are pretty much identical .... though the graphics on the latest release are better. That it seems is why no new specific info is made available.

The greatest lesson learned in bonsai (IMO) is to be able to see an ingredient list from days gone by and adapt its principle with today's offered soil mediums for your environment and situation. If you get hung up in specifics and want to be a true disciple of a certain recipe or technique ...you may have a hard time finding those ingredients. Peter when he wrote that book lived in the UK, finding what he might of used here in the states maybe a challenge.

IF you just gotta know...you might drop him a note and ask ... akadam2740 (at) aol.com

 

[Ang3lfir3]

also note that he (Peter Adams) is living here in WA in one of the dryer areas of western WA so the climate has changed as well. I believe he may be using lava now as it is more readily available and very cost effective.... also pumice is easier to come by here so its not so bad. We also have pretty easy access to Akadama as well so as you can tell there are a lot of potential change factors that you need to take into account.

like Tom said... you should be able to see a list of components... get the idea of what its trying to accomplish... adapt to your climate and go from there. Though I do believe coarse river sand has always been the sand of choice (again like Tom said Pool sand #5)

 

[rockm]

Reprinted books may, or may not (mostly not in the case of most bonsai books), contain new info. The Adams book was not updated very much. I would not use the soil info in them--aquarium gravel is bad in bonsai soil.

If you're looking for appropriate sand for bonsai mixes, you might look into swimming pool filter sand --I've used Mystic White II from U.S. Silica for years. It works very well--with uniform particle size about 1/16" or so I think. It is white, however, and can look a bit stark. I used to be able to find it at redneck pool supply places -- the places that serve above ground backyard pools.

I've also heard of sand blasting sand being used too.

 

[Klytus]

It's probably no big deal,a regular bag of hortciultural grit sand from any UK garden centre.

Usually the bag will read washed and lime free.

It's a gritty sand,the sand is about 1 mm and it's angry,unlike silversand which is calm,the grits range to about 6 mm and are sharp angles rather than smooth.

 

[subnet_rx]

Well, thanks for the info. It was a long shot, but I did find the book interesting. John Naka mentions sand in his books as well, and I really have never known what kind of sand they were talking about, so this was good information.

 

[Klytus]

It's probably sub 1mm sand and there will be dust,the last knockings of a bag left open outside will always be a slurry.

 

[rockm]

John Naka's soil recipes are even worse as a reference than the old Adams stuff. Naka's books were assembled from instruction sheets from his classes in Southern California in the early 70's.

http://www.phoenixbonsai.com/JYN.html

The care instructions and soil recipes were always specific to that region and are now more than 35 years old and very dated--even in So.Cal.

Likewise any book that uses "loam" as an ingredient, or suggests you use native soil (which some older Japanese books do). Don't really center on the terms used so much, as their function. Sand, for instance--Basically it is a smaller, irregularly shaped component that is used to keep larger, irregular components (haydite, turface, etc) from clumping. Sand is also durable (won't break down over time) and (hopefully) inert--won't leach bad things. This description fits components other than sand that may be available in your area. Pumice comes to mind...

Soil components for bonsai have some an extremely long way in the US in the last 15 years. We've learned a lot about what works and what doesn't. Beware soil recommendations in old books...