Pinching strong apical shoots on a developing JM

[ajm55555]

So I have this Japanese maple, which I cut back hard in the Fall of 2019. It's a garden center tree at the beginning of its bonsai life.
It's waking up now and I have a few apical shoots that are very strong, while others down below are weak and maybe on the verge of drying up. I guess it's possible that they'll come back stronger once the energy gets more evenly distributed.
I know you pinch as refinement but I was wondering if pinching those strong ones would help the ones at the bottom to get some energy earlier or before it's too late.
Thanks for your tips.

Some of the strong ones. There are more up above.


Some of the weak ones. They're not all weak but definitely weaker in general ans some are kind of black even if not dead.

 

[SeanS]

Are you saying that the new foliage from those shoots is turning black and then drying out? If yes it could be fungal

 

[leatherback]

You would indeed reduce the top much stronger, and more frequent to get the bottom to catch up. It is however not my first concern. I am worried about the bulges that you are creating with groups of branches..

What is your development plan? Do you intent to cut the trunk back to well below these potential bulges (In which case it is no issue, nor are the lower branches) or do you plant on growing it out slowly letting each part of the tree gain girth & age using the existing material?

 

[ajm55555]

Are you saying that the new foliage from those shoots is turning black and then drying out? If yes it could be fungal

No, I'm talking only about some of the weaker buds. I'm pretty sure there is no fungus around, the tree is very healthy. Here's a picture (bottom left). It seems like the tree decided that left branch has to die and is pushing a shoot at the junction instead.
So my question is: if I pinch the stronger ones, would these weaker ones possibly get some more energy?

 

[ajm55555]

I am worried about the bulges that you are creating with groups of branches..

There is no bulge @leatherback , it's only the wrong angle ;-)
Here's a picture from a different one, just 2 branches on that junction and some scars to clean up.

 

[SeanS]

Do you keep the tree inside?

 

[ajm55555]

Do you keep the tree inside?

Until next Tuesday ;-) We're having a cold spell.

 

[Cmd5235]

So let me understand. You got this tree a few years ago, it’s been outside, it started to leaf out, and it’s inside now? How low are your lows?

I agree with leatherback- you’ve got a lot of branching clustered together. My first step would be to ID my leader and cut each of those clusters of branches back to one single branch. Not only will it stop having a thick bulge in those areas, it will also help reducing the strength of the top and allowing a redirection to weaker buds down below. That should also give you a good framework to know how you want to proceed.

I would also suggest cutting those branches back to the first set of buds. JM’s can get really leggy and have long internodes quickly. On a tree of this scale, you have to manage that.

I have JM’s outside that leaf out and then freeze. Doesn’t seem to have any real impact. If it was a freeze AND a cold wind, then I would be concerned. Otherwise, I’d leave the tree out where it’s happy and in a good, natural cycle

 

[ajm55555]

I have JM’s outside that leaf out and then freeze. Doesn’t seem to have any real impact. If it was a freeze AND a cold wind, then I would be concerned. Otherwise, I’d leave the tree out where it’s happy and in a good, natural cycle

We're having freezing temperatures for a few more days. I'm not taking any risk. The tree sits all day in an unheated and bright environment.

 

[ajm55555]

I agree with leatherback- you’ve got a lot of branching clustered together. My first step would be to ID my leader and cut each of those clusters of branches back to one single branch. Not only will it stop having a thick bulge in those areas, it will also help reducing the strength of the top and allowing a redirection to weaker buds down below. That should also give you a good framework to know how you want to proceed.

As said all my major ramifications divide into 2 secondary branches. There are no bulges I'm worried about.
What I'm interested right now is if it's a good idea to pinch just a few of the strongest shoots to redirect the energy elsewhere, given that this is a tree under development.

 

[RKatzin]

Can we see a pic of the whole tree?

 

[PA_Penjing]

I will be employing the exact method you mentioned, this spring. It makes sense in my head that you could slow down apical growth and strong branches while the weaker had some room to run. I’m open minded and could have my mind changed if someone more experienced chimes in with a reason we shouldn’t do this though. Maybe I’ll start a thread on that tree soon....

 

[Forsoothe!]

You need to fix in your mind what is the right maximum length of an internode. Then, any that threaten to exceed that are cut off back the next set of buds as soon as you suspect this. That needs to be monitored the whole growing season because that is the nature of the start of each flush. It always starts with one or a few buds extending the internode substantially before and during leafing out. Watch for them and ruthlessly trim them ASAP if they exceed your max. This may continue with just a few at a time. Keep after it until all terminal buds begin to extend at the same time. All the terminals that are extending are sharing equally, more or less, the amount of energy that the plant is using to leaf out. Just a few extending get a lot more than if 20 or 30 are sharing. Some species are worse than others, for instance Bougainvillea and Wisteria and Grape, all of which are vines, but it happens to a greater or lesser extent with everything.

 

[ajm55555]

You need to fix in your mind what is the right maximum length of an internode. Then, any that threaten to exceed that are cut off back the next set of buds as soon as you suspect this.

I'm not worried about internodes at this stage but of secondary branches possibly dying.
My fear with pinching a developing tree is that you also want almost every branch to thicken up and pinching stops it.
In this case I wouldn't pinch unless it's useful to stimulate the sleeping buds, which I think might not break open ever and let some branches to die.

 

[Forsoothe!]

Yes, there is a cost to pinching, but I would argue that it's a trade off that works for me: you keep the tree tidy at the same time that you keep the the actual amount of wood removed at a minimum. If you let those branches grow "too long" by my standards and then cut them back, are the net resources that were used to produce the wood greater or smaller than that of the leaves and internodes you would have removed? I think you conserve resources by pinching. Those resources will produce wood closer to the interior by pinching. Others may disagree. Think about the volume of net resources you are removing when you pinch. Peanuts. Plus, you don't have blunt ends to your branches to cover with ramifications that take time to accomplish. It's an easy choice for me, I don't like stumps.

 

[_#1_]

Yes, there is a cost to pinching, but I would argue that it's a trade off that works for me:

Ask this gentleman of some of the trees he's been working on for a couple years. Or look them up yourself. Then decide if the visual net gained something you'll want to follow.

 

[ajm55555]

Ask this gentleman of some of the trees he's been working on for a couple years. Or look them up yourself. Then decide if the visual net gained something you'll want to follow.

I actually like what @Forsoothe! said and appreciate it ;-)

 

[ajm55555]

Yes, there is a cost to pinching

I went on with the pinching. I'll let you all know on the main thread for the tree.

Multi Trunk JM 2019

I couldn't leave this JM on the bench of the local Garden Center. Half price at Euro 25! I'd like to ask your suggestions on where to cut the next Spring. I rough cut the longest branches, just to make it more compact but will not do any major cut now that Winter is at the door. It will rest in...

www.bonsainut.com

 

[Forsoothe!]

I think you should continue to pursue this as a tall 3 trunker as is, for at least as long as it takes for you to become accustomed to the pinching process. You will be building wood and learning how to create clouds to your liking at the same time. If at some later date you decide to chop, the tree will be bigger and you'll have a better handle on the your actions verses tree responses then. In fact you could do it in steps where you chop one trunk flat and another at a 30 or 45 or 60° angle and see how it responds. Like everything else in life, you learn best by doing and observing and that is a function of both time and opportunity. The best part of learning is the feeling of self-satisfaction you get when you do something and it works!

 

[ajm55555]

I get a lot of comments telling me I should chop, reduce, correct before it's too late.
I do what I feel. I'm the only one who can see the tree in 3D all the time. I have my ideas about bonsai and I can even call my plants with another name, "trees in pots".
I'm here to learn but in the end I do all this to be closer to nature, just that.