Pinching strong apical shoots on a developing JM

[LanceMac10]

All the techniques you espouse don't show the results you think your getting. Tertiary? Where? Way out at the ends of vertical characterless branches with long leaf-less sections? Try again.

 

[Forsoothe!]

Primary buds are at the tips, secondary are the next to be inflated and do so as the the primaries are finishing up, and tertiary are often hidden as third or forth inward from the tip and are only used when the plant senses it doesn't have enough leaf surface.

 

[Shibui]

Once again a perfectly legitimate question has degenerated into name calling and thinly disguised personal abuse.


Back to the original point:
Not every shoot on any tree will survive and grow. That's the way trees develop ion nature and in bonsai. When strong shoots start to grow at the base of shoots that are not responding it usually means that shoot has died for one reason or another. That s not always the result of a strong apex. After it gets to that stage it is probably too late to reverse but the new shoots will replace lost ones so not always a bad thing.
Apical dominance is a thing. Apical dominance does need to be managed even during development phases. Always check for weakening in lower branches when the top is growing strong. If you need those lower branches for the final design then the top will need to be reduced to save them, even if that temporarily reduces the development you are after. Far better IMHO to take a couple of extra years to grow a good bonsai than race forward to an inferior one.
There is no one defined time to start slowing the apex. Do so whenever it appears necessary. The apex can then be allowed to grow again after balance has been restored. Bonsai is rarely about one or the other. Judicious use of combinations of techniques seems to work far better in my experience.

Taller, elegant JM bonsai can be very attractive, especially in multi trunk and group style. Not everyone will see it the same but if that's what you want then ignore the tater growers who seem to be seem to see trunk thickness as the only desirable quality in bonsai.
There will still be a range of views on what is too tall and too thin and I think we have seen some of that here too. Reduction pruning can occur at any stage in the life of a bonsai. Does not always have to be 'now!'

 

[Adair M]

Primary buds are at the tips, secondary are the next to be inflated and do so as the the primaries are finishing up, and tertiary are often hidden as third or forth inward from the tip and are only used when the plant senses it doesn't have enough leaf surface.

Not exactly... again, it’s auxin. Auxin directs where and how the growth occurs. Most trees are apically dominant, and try to grow tall. Auxin is produced by the growing tips. It’s the signal that tells the tree and roots that there’s growth happening, and do “whatever it takes” to support those strong growing tips.

Most trees grow in forests. Each tree in a race with all its neighbors. A race for the sky! That’s where the energy comes from. The Sun. The growing tips on top of the tree, and the ones at the tips of the branches are the ones most likely to reach the open areas to absorb sunlight. They produce strong auxin, that gets sent from the tips down the tree to the roots. When the roots get auxin, they know the top is growing, so they grow to find nutrients to sent up to the tips.

But, guess what? Auxin has a second effect... it suppresses the growth of the buds between it and the roots! Why would it do that? Remember, those terminal tips are in a race for the sky. To reach it faster than the trees next door, those growing tips want ALL the tree’s resources. Those side shoots and branches close to the trunk? Ha! They don’t matter to the terminal tip! They aren’t going to reach the sky! So, auxin suppresses their growth.

Those side branches just sit there while the terminal tips extend as far as they can. Why are they even there at all? They’re insurance. Up high, the terminal tips are subject to the extremes of weather. Something might happen to the terminal tips. And if it does, the secondaries are there to carry on. If “something happens”, how does the tree know? Remember the auxin flow? It’s gone! The auxin produced by the growing tips isn’t produced any more if the terminal tip is broken off. So, the flow of auxin stops. But remember, the auxin suppressed the growth of the secondary buds and branches. Now it it’s gone, they can start growing! Will they be as strong as the former primary growing tip? No, not in the first year, they’ve been suppressed. But, they’ll grow, and the following year, they will be the primary growing tip.

Now that we know all this, use the knowledge to develop bonsai. Bonsai is different than trees in a forest. They don’t have to compete with the tree next to them for sunlight. But they don;t know that. So, they try to grow tall. We want to keep them short. We want constrained growth, not tall “as fast as possible” growth to the sun. By pinching the tips, we can create the “natural disasters” that stimulate the secondary and tertiary branches. We can do this selectively so that the trees grow how we want, and not how it does.

Each tree will need to be managed differently depending upon it’s stage of development and degree (or lack of) refinement. Remember my Japanese maple forest where I let one tree have a long sacrifice? I want that tree to grow fatter than the others. So, I let one branch grow out unchecked. I’ll do it again this year. And again, probably, the year after that. By then, It should be thicker than the others, and I won’t have to keep doing that. They are all the same age, but that tree will look like it’s the “mother tree” because it will be bigger than the others. And it wont be because it has more leaves or more roots, it will be because it was allowed to grow while all the other trees will get pinched.

Bonsai isn’t hard, you just need to “think like a tree”.

 

[sorce]

Look into the mirror

The only repeating image is that damn pine picture.

How can every instance need the same photo reference?

Who's picture is that anyway?

Sorce

 

[Adair M]

The only repeating image is that damn pine picture.

How can every instance need the same photo reference?

Who's picture is that anyway?

Sorce

What, my avatar? That’s my tree. Do you want more pictures of it?

You do?

Ok! Enjoy:



I’ve got more if you want...

 

[sorce]

One is plenty.


Sorce

 

[_#1_]

One is plenty.
View attachment 362970

Sorce

I don't understand. Thought you where mostly a centrist and tries to see and understand everyone's viewpoint.

Why the distress signal?

 

[ajm55555]

It seems like I provided you guys with a battlefield... That was not my intention.
I think I know more now (thank you all and I really mean that) and as the OP, with the power given to me by Aja, Phaunus, Dryades, Kukunochi, Mielikki and the other ones, I order you all to go back to your trees, which need you more than me.
Just joking ;-)

 

[MACH5]

In the, "Here we go again" mode, I may not have trees of @MACH5 or @Adair M form, but I don't have their money and the people that I advise here don't, either. Those kinds of people can buy what they want, and God bless them. I have posted so many photos it's embarrassing, but here's what I think is closer to what the OP wants...

First, I want to compliment you on your tree. In my opinion, if you could differentiate their thicknesses a bit more it could make a stellar grouping one day.

Second, I need to address this incorrect assumption that I have unfortunately heard many times before on this forum: that I am "one of those kinds of people" that can buy whatever they want. This is simply untrue. I wish that was the case, believe me! Reason why I need to sell trees from time to time to buy other ones since I would otherwise be unable to afford them. Also, as a note, I have bought many trees at a fraction of the cost and have brought them to what they are today through hard and diligent work. Ultimately, I believe that leveling up your skill and taste--not money--make the difference.

 

[leatherback]

this incorrect assumption

Envy is an ugly beast!

 

[ajm55555]

First, I want to compliment you on your tree. In my opinion, if you could differentiate their thicknesses a bit more it could make a stellar grouping one day.

Thank you Sergio. The thickness was bothering a lot of people here and maybe rightly so. The fact is if I look at the pictures I understand why but if I look at the tree here I see it differently, more balanced and elegant. Maybe the front is wrong, maybe the camera distorts the actual shape, maybe it's just me that I like it like it is. But sure, I'll keep this in mind. For now I will let it grow.
Congratulations for your trees, It's really inspiring following their progression