Ponderosa From Burlap Bonanza

fore

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Here is a Pondy I got from Andy Smith. It's been a little over 2 weeks and the candles are slowly growing. it's about 36" tall.

Edit: No matter how I rotate it in Picassa, it's always sideways. Sorry! (strange, this happens on every forum but in different ways, like upside down, rotated r/l. Quite aggravating!
 

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mcpesq817

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That's a really nice tree, good score! I just got my shipment from Andy yesterday :D He is definitely one of the good guys out there.
 

rock

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IMG_0085.jpg

good luck with that !
 

fore

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Fantastic! Thanks Rock for fixing that picture!

And Thanks mcpesq817. It is a 'keeper'! ;-) And Good Luck with yours! Gotta a pic?
This one will make three now for me now lol (awaiting my third tree from Walter Pall and Jim Doyle in Aug. Both Walter and Jim are also very fine and funny gentleman) I also agree, Andy is a very nice guy, personally, as well as a great guy to do business with!

I'm pretty excited about this one too. I love this tree's movement, jins, the cool shari, the area beaten up by carpenter ants, and the generous healthy foliage. Lots to work with. To me, PP's, with their twisted, gnarly, ruggedness of the tree and bark are very unique and have a 'natural' character to them. And the longer needles, whatever size they end up being, is what 'makes' it a Ponderosa Pine ;)
I'll keep pics as things go, but obviously not for a yr or two on this one. ;(...but I can think about what I want to do with it LOL
 

treebeard55

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I believe I noticed that tree on Andy's BB page, and spent some minutes imagining how it might be shaped.

Have fun! You have a great piece of material.
 

crust

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Edit: No matter how I rotate it in Picassa, it's always sideways. Sorry! (strange, this happens on every forum but in different ways, like upside down, rotated r/l. Quite aggravating![/QUOTE] Try re-sizing your photo smaller next time.
 

dick benbow

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since ponderosa's have such long needles, was wondering how you might deal with them in the future. Little feed? Little water? Cutting length? leaving as is and enjoying! be sure and pick up Larry Jackels book on this pine. Inexpensive and full of good info. here's a ponderosa that took top tree at our last regional convention. I have two, but not yet on the same level as this one.
I think they're wonderful trees, tho I fight getting them enough sunshine in cloudy Seattle. Always respected Andy's efforts to collect and provide some stunning trees for us to work on.
Best of luck with yours!
 

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fore

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Edit: No matter how I rotate it in Picassa, it's always sideways. Sorry! (strange, this happens on every forum but in different ways, like upside down, rotated r/l. Quite aggravating!
Try re-sizing your photo smaller next time.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the idea crust! It's worth a try!
 

fore

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since ponderosa's have such long needles, was wondering how you might deal with them in the future. Little feed? Little water? Cutting length? leaving as is and enjoying! be sure and pick up Larry Jackels book on this pine. Inexpensive and full of good info. here's a ponderosa that took top tree at our last regional convention. I have two, but not yet on the same level as this one.
I think they're wonderful trees, tho I fight getting them enough sunshine in cloudy Seattle. Always respected Andy's efforts to collect and provide some stunning trees for us to work on.
Best of luck with yours!

That is a very nice tree Dick! That one is not only has great movement and dynamism, but is also older than what I have. I do have Larry's book and it is an excellent read. I've read reducing ferts can reduce needles, as well as the longer they are in a bonsai pot, the shorter the needles will become, and needle cutting. But the latter came in diff. advice in Larry's book. Some growers sugg. cutting the needles after they have hardened off, and another sugg. cutting them before they harden off. I think we are still learning how to treat this species to suit bonsai.

and Best of Luck with yours too Dick!
 

0soyoung

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Both Ryan Neil's and Walter Pall's advice is that one doesn't starve Ponderosas but the contrary: one feeds them very well. Needle size reduces with the abundance of foliage (implied is a certain amount of needle plucking in preparation for show, I believe). The principle is that with more needles, individual needles needn't be so long to sustain the tree's growth/life.
 

Brian Van Fleet

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since ponderosa's have such long needles, was wondering how you might deal with them in the future. Little feed? Little water? Cutting length? leaving as is and enjoying!

Ryan Neil suggests in this video that more buds, healthier tree, stronger growth = smaller needles. Pretty much the opposite of starving and depriving them. Two of the ponderosas I collected 2 years ago had shorter needles than some of my JBP. The one I worked this spring had fewer buds and the needles are longer now. The other one which hasn't been worked yet has gotten very full, and the needles are 2"-3" long.
 

fore

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I rewatched that video Brian, and Ryan did indeed say the more foliage mass, the more photosynthesis there is, and a less of a need for longer needles. So shorter needles are the result.

Yet Walter stated in Larry's book, pg. 90:"Long needles are the result of a combination of much water and feeding as avised here. Therefore a 'finished' bonsai will finally get less water and feed, but this only after more that a decade in development". And continued on pg 92:"For getting shorter needles one can also practice the following method: In May with all the whorls (cluster of 3-5 branches from one spot on older branches)the needles are cut back to the length that one woud have liked. The buds must remain intact. These buds will develop candles with have a bit shorter needles, because the get somewhat less energy from the shortened needles. The tips of the needles will look sl. ugly though for one season"....But during development of a bonsai one can well work with very high nitrogen contents in organic feed. Long needles will create a alot of energy that leads to lots of back budding. Later, when the bonsai is 'finished' one can feed less"

Per Jerry Meislik, pg. 87: "...the normal needle length can be shortened a it. Signif. needle reduction can easily be produced by cutting all the needles to half their length after they harden off in early summer. The next yr. this will activate many latent buds and produces shorter needles and more branching"

And Dan Robinson on pg 79: He talks about water starvation technique where you use this technique "for several weeks, or until the needle has hardened off. Then resume normal watering to promote good bud formation. Then needles will not extend after they have hardened off. Most of my Ponderosas in my collection are lg. trees and the natural needle is somewhat diminished by being in a container in which the scale is appropriate For smaller trees, shorter needle length is critical, and this is an interesting but demanding method to try."

So it seems, there are sev. different approaches to be tried. But Walter def. seems to want to water and feed highly for trees in dev., have the long needles, and only when it is 'finished', one can feed less and try the needle cutting. Pretty much what Ryan said.
 
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fore

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This tree had a tremendously vigorous yr with lots of new back buds and strong terminal bud strength, so I plan on an initial style this spring. I've been playing with a possible design. Thoughts or suggestions? (other than my bad drawing skills lol)
 

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Dan W.

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Nice tree fore :)

My experience with picasa has been that you have to go into the actual file on your computer to rotate the picture- ("my pictures" in windows). Just rotating them in picasa won't translate anywhere besides picasa.
 

fore

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Oh, I didn't know that Dan, Thanks!

No comments about this design? I have thick skin, let it rip lol
 

Poink88

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No comments about this design? I have thick skin, let it rip lol
Chris,

I am not good at design but I know I didn't like your vision (virt) for this tree. Sorry.

I would (personally) probably start with one of these tree orientation. Both will need major branch relocation/bending. Wish I can do virts but I can't
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I am also not sure if the roots will allow these profile (if you ever decide on trying one of these).
 
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wireme

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Super nice tree for sure.

I notice in your sketch you removed the first large left branch. You may be able to bend that branch down and more compact. At the least I would not remove that branch until I had a very clear vision of the finished goal.
Good to hear it's healthy and budding for you.

Am I allowed to put this link here? This is similar to how I see using that branch. http://www.bonsaimirai.com/portfolio/douglas-fir-01.html
 
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Poink88

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Chris,

Just a thought...maybe you can ask Pavel if he can do a virt for you? He is really very good (at least in my book) esp on these types of trees. Worth a shot, worst that can happen is he doesn't respond. ;)
 
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