Shogun610
Masterpiece
Oh you can send me some cultivars too.
Princess đź‘‘ Persimmon no. 1
- Thread starter Shogun610
- Start date
Shogun610
Masterpiece
@Bonsai Nut How did your persimmon respond when the suckers were cut off since they’re still attached roots.
Shogun610
Masterpiece
These are Shuho pots
Shogun610
Masterpiece
Shogun610
Masterpiece
Trimmed the tree up with Bob this weekend. Might not happen next spring but got this pot for the main tree some day. 7.7 “ * 2.5” deep Shuho, love how the pink
looks orange w the blue.. will take better pics … phone is a pos
looks orange w the blue.. will take better pics … phone is a pos
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Love that pot.
Shogun610
Masterpiece
My date on this soggy windy night.
whole bunch of big buds up on top and some side branches.. rest are small buds.
whole bunch of big buds up on top and some side branches.. rest are small buds.
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Shogun610
Masterpiece
just used a wire to reposition top branch, considering wiring some of the finer branches but for now just gonna focus on a healthy repot…. Read all I could , reached out to whom I could and shorting for late winter.
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
I simply trim the suckers off at the ground level. I do not remove the root - since I assume the root is important to the parent tree unless I can prove otherwise (like during a repot).
MACH5
Imperial Masterpiece
Shogun610
Masterpiece
It’s not going to be wired too long .. I had to move the top branch.
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Shogun610
Masterpiece
Right, there are two large suckers at the last side that ar too far from the trunk to keep w design so unless I can safely remove , they’ll jus the cut off
namnhi
Masterpiece
Why not just let them grow another year or so then divide them. That is one of the way to propagate since you know this is a female plant.
Shogun610
Masterpiece
Perhaps, inspected where they were tonight , and it appears there is separation to safety remove repotting but we shall see where the Kaneshin blades cross. Like warring feudal lords, the main trunk is the strongest daimyo
NaoTK
Chumono
They usually end up looking like this. You are going to work the roots anyway so give them as much root you are willing to part with to sustain them the first year.
Bonsai Orange County
Mame
What are the differences between male and female as it relates to bonsai in this species? I love these!
Shogun610
Masterpiece
Duly noted thanks to everyone on this thread so far. I also got to email a bit w Julian and I feel a lot better based on what he said and what you’ve all provided me with. Here’s to Persimmon and a safe winter and success repot.
Hope you all stick around for the progress of this tree in the future. Please share your successes and learnings and we can learn together.
Hope you all stick around for the progress of this tree in the future. Please share your successes and learnings and we can learn together.
Crazy Diamond
Omono
Males only display small masculine flowers and not the beautiful orange fruits
Shogun610
Masterpiece
Some light wiring , paying super close to how long they’ll be on .. just to set some branches up.. suckers in the way but this is the angle for repot. 
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
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Princess persimmons are in the genus Diospyros. Virtually all species in this genus are dioecious, meaning individual plants will be male or female. Flowers of male plants produce pollen only, no fruit, no seed. Flowers of female plants produce no pollen, they do have stigma, and ovaries, and can produce fruit with seed when pollinated. Normally several different bee species, especially solitary carpenter bees, solitary orchard bees, and ground dwelling sollitary mason bees are the original wild pollinator insects. Honeybees can do the job in modern orchards, if pollination is desired. Key point, in the wild form, no pollination, there will be no fruit. If you want fruit on wild type princess persimmons, you must have both male and female plants in bloom at the same time.
This sounds like male & female in mammals, but the genetic source and resulting mechanism is quite different from the mammalian model. The way sex works in Diospyros allows some interesting variation.
For Diospyros rhombifolia, the Princess persimmon, the normal condition is that if a female flower does not get pollinated, it will dry and fall off without producing fruit. However the genetics allow that a small percentage of every 100 wild type female plants, there will be a few females that will produce seedless fruit without being pollinated. This variant, is heritable. So in Japan there are in cultivation genetic races (selected breeding groups) of D. rhombifolia that a high percentage of the females produced from seed will flower and go on to make seedless fruit if no male pollinator is present. Princess persimmon from the wild in Japan, most females will be barren without a male pollinator. But Princess persimmons propagated in Japanese bonsai nurseries have a high percentage of females that produce seedless fruit without a male, because it is a genetic trait that can be selected for. Both in Japan and USA, propagation of select clones by grafting, cuttings, or air layers are possible, and were done to make these unusual female plants available.
These select female cultivars, that make seedless fruit have been imported into the USA by people like Bill Valavanis, Julien Adams, and many others over the years. So when you buy a female Princess persimmon from a bonsai artist or propagator, if they tell you that you don't need a male to get fruit, this is why.
Seed from bonsai propagators will likely have a fair percentage of females that can make seedless fruit.
If you buy seed from "seed companies" for instance, Sheffield Seed Company, they will normally sell wild type seed, meaning that for seed sourced from these people, who specialize in supply wild type genetics, and are not at all bonsai orientated, these will produce females that will generally be barren without a male pollinator. Yields for wild type seed are anywhere from 70% male, 30% female to 50% male and 50% female. Somewhat depends on their source.
The condition described for Princess persimmon more or less applies to all persimmons. Diospyros kaki is one of the worlds oldest cultivated fruits, and quite a few seedless female cultivars have been selected & propagated over the 3000 years it has been in cultivation.
In North America, Diospyros virginiana, the American persimmon, there are a small number of seedless fruit when not pollinated cultivars of the American persimmon, I have 3 grafted plants in my back yard that I have hoping will reach fruiting size soon. 'Yates', 'Weber' and 'Prok' are the three I'm testing. I will report the minute I have success. I also have a few American persimmon seedlings, one 4 year old, most are 3 and 2 years old, that I am raising with intention of moving them into being bonsai. So far nothing in a pot has bloomed. My oldest tree was planted in the ground and began producing fruit at 7 years of age in Southern IL. Unfortunately, there are wild males in the woods nearby, so all the fruit has seed.
I think the North American native persimmon, Diospyros virginiana, is a species that should be looked into for medium to large size bonsai. It is winter hardy into southern eastern Canada, so pretty much all of zone 5 in North America. For people in zone 6 and warmer winter protection is minor or even unnecessary. Fruit is smaller than Kaki, between 1 and 2 inches in diameter. And seedlings begin developing bark at about 7 years of age, and develop a unique for Diospyros, heavy alligator checked bark once over 20 years of age. The heavy plated bark would be very attractive if you could get an older trunk growing. A tree around 3 feet tall, and "sort of" literati trained would look great with a few fruit hanging well after leaf drop in autumn, with the heavy bark. A great winter silhouette species.
