Princess 👑 Persimmon no. 1

[Shogun610]

@Shogun610 couple more weeks and it will be ready. Which one you plan to plant into it?

I’m not sure yet actually but will see if I can transfer it when you’re done or wait till next year

 

[Pitoon]

I’m not sure yet actually but will see if I can transfer it when you’re done or wait till next year

You, @NaoTK, and @Bonsai Nut pushed me over the edge......hopefully soon I'll be able to play in the yard with some Princess Persimmons too!

 

[Shogun610]

You, @NaoTK, and @Bonsai Nut pushed me over the edge......hopefully soon I'll be able to play in the yard with some Princess Persimmons too!

Yeah they’re cool I hope I can learn more so I have better techniques in future . Might have to visit @NaoTK in future on persimmon. But maybe this double trunk sucker I have .. I can turn it into a cascade just gotta raffia when I bend it.. we’ll see !!

 

[Pj86]

I hope I didn't cause you to lose sleep!

I was only quoting the professionals. But we should unpack this a bit:

1. Japanese growers are maximizers, they have 1000's of plants and have their process dialed in. That doesn't mean you can't repot in February and protect, but they are saying you get better results later....much later.
2. These people have been growing persimmons longer than anyone in the US. Yamaguchi Yasuhisa has grown them longer than anyone anywhere. He probably developed the cultivar you are growing.
3. I live in Oregon and the climate is very similar to Japan, our cherry blossoms bloom the same week. So I follow what they recommend. Adjust later for Penn
4. They make many points about "momentum". Since persimmons are very sensitive to root work and take a long time to recover, you want the tree really pushing to build up that momentum. Sometimes I repot a weak tree and it doesn't leaf out until July. To prevent this, I should repot once it has fully leafed out. Weird right? They are semi-tropical in a sense. Your tree is very healthy and well rooted, it will be fine. But the flowers may or may not develop and it may not fruit this year.

View attachment 418916View attachment 418917

View attachment 418918View attachment 418919View attachment 418920

The first book is available on Kindle and Books app. It translates to:

“Old persimmons have very strong root growth, but I don't like cutting the roots. In the year of replanting, the tree vigor is less and the growth is modest. Of course, it is not the case to avoid replanting, and if you do not replant for many years, there is a risk of root clogging, and even if you do not, you will have to cut the roots strongly as a result you will run the risk of losing the tree‘s vigor. Therefore, we want to maintain a well-drained soil condition while maintaining an appropriate cycle and avoiding extremely strong root treatment. The recovery of tree vigor from replanting depends, of course, on the age and condition of the tree. It is desirable to have a cycle of about once every two years for young trees and once every three to five years as the trees get older. If there is a straight root, it is excised and the root is removed so as to leave a fine root. Especially for young trees, it is recommended to leave the fine roots near the rising edge to adjust the rooting.

Old persimmons prefer a well-drained environment, so be sure to spread the ground soil on the bottom three to four quarters of the pot. The standard soil is hard Akadama soil and about 20 to 30% of mountain sand, and if you are away and the number of watering is limited, increase the amount of hard Akadama soil to improve water retention. The optimum time for replanting is generally around the (1) beginning of March, which is the same as for other deciduous trees, but we also recommend (2) around June to July when the shoots have set, and (3) from late August to mid-September in the beginning of autumn. Since (1) is the familiar dormant replanting, it can be managed together with other tree species, but the movement of sprouts tends to slow down a little. (2) Has the advantage that if you give fertilizer and increase the tree vigor at the same time as the sprout starts to move, you can spend a year without weakening the momentum. However, I will give up watching the fruits because there is a risk that the fruits will fall. (3) is the optimal time for growers who are familiar with this tree species, and it is a recommended time when the tree vigor and safety are perfect, and if only the winter protection can be done properly, the growth from the next spring is also good. You can enjoy the seedlings without dropping the fruit, but it is safer to consider thinning out to about half. By the way, replanting from April to May when the shoots are moving will not only damage the tree vigor but also adversely affect the seedlings, so be sure to avoid it.”

 

[namnhi]

I hope I didn't cause you to lose sleep!

I was only quoting the professionals. But we should unpack this a bit:

1. Japanese growers are maximizers, they have 1000's of plants and have their process dialed in. That doesn't mean you can't repot in February and protect, but they are saying you get better results later....much later.
2. These people have been growing persimmons longer than anyone in the US. Yamaguchi Yasuhisa has grown them longer than anyone anywhere. He probably developed the cultivar you are growing.
3. I live in Oregon and the climate is very similar to Japan, our cherry blossoms bloom the same week. So I follow what they recommend. Adjust later for Penn
4. They make many points about "momentum". Since persimmons are very sensitive to root work and take a long time to recover, you want the tree really pushing to build up that momentum. Sometimes I repot a weak tree and it doesn't leaf out until July. To prevent this, I should repot once it has fully leafed out. Weird right? They are semi-tropical in a sense. Your tree is very healthy and well rooted, it will be fine. But the flowers may or may not develop and it may not fruit this year.

View attachment 418916View attachment 418917

View attachment 418918View attachment 418919View attachment 418920

My didn't fruit the year I repot them. One fruit the following year but another didn't fruit the second year after repot. Hopefully they will this year.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

What are the differences between male and female as it relates to bonsai in this species? I love these!

I forgot to mention, you can only tell male from female when in flower or fruit. The flowers, the male flowers will have pollen, the female flowers will not have pollen, only have stigma. Obviously after flowering female trees will have fruit.

There are no vegetative traits to separate male from female. Leaves, buds, twigs, bark, all traits are more or less uniform or rather equally variable across the sexes. So while there is a range of bark textures, the range has nothing to do with sex of the tree. While there is a range of leaf shapes, there is no correlation to gender of the tree.

You can not tell the gender of a persimmon unless it is in flower or fruit.

 

[Shogun610]

Smaller suckers are still alive and about to start opening .. one of them did

 

[Pitoon]

Smaller suckers are still alive and about to start opening .. one of them did

Those all your trees in the second pic?

 

[Shogun610]

Those all your trees in the second pic?

Nah , Im able to house my trees in the greenhouses at the bonsai studio I study at. All my root cuttings / sucker projects are in the hot house.

 

[Hanandokita]

I have a royagaki that I have been growing out. I watch a lot a this guys videos on repotting. He usually takes a lot of it seems.

 

[Shogun610]

still alive but no buds opening yet .. hopefully soon

 

[Hanandokita]

I went to a local nursery today. Here is their collection. First pic was the largest one. About $50 and the smaller seedlings are about $5.


This one is mine. Paid way too much for it. That's before I knew that the nursey had them. The first year I got it, it was severely root bound, so I did a big root prune. I did this maybe mid fall. Not a good time to do it. It did nothing the first year. Buds didn't open at all. They didn't look dead though, so kept in shade that year. The next year the buds finally opened. This year there are a few flowers. I have a normal sized persimmon tree in my front yard. Supposedly that would be fine for pollinization. In fact the bonsai place I bought it from said that you can use a special pollen spray for tomatoes that would work too.

 

[Shogun610]

Good sign.. some buds popped and new ones sprouting. But no leaves yet.. but it’s alive. I finally see why they’re called princess because it’s such a diva taking it’s good old time

 

[vp999]

Nah , Im able to house my trees in the greenhouses at the bonsai studio I study at. All my root cuttings / sucker projects are in the hot house.

That's a lot of Chojubai lol.

 

[Potawatomi13]

I went to a local nursery today. Here is their collection. First pic was the largest one. About $50 and the smaller seedlings are about $5.

MAMA MIA!

 

[Shogun610]

Also been finding dead flies on this tree .. anyone ever see this? Know how to get them TF away from my buds? Please excuse my dirty fingernails

 

[Hanandokita]

Good sign.. some buds popped and new ones sprouting. But no leaves yet.. but it’s alive. I finally see why they’re called princess because it’s such a diva taking it’s good old time View attachment 440060View attachment 440061

Nice!! remember it's called old man kakki here, so you can look at it that way too. Slow and hates to move
Once it's healthy again, it will explode with new growth. I was surprised how much new growth mine had this year. Just did some spring pruning.

 

[Shogun610]

F*@king finally pushing

 

[Shogun610]

F*@king finally pushing .. other branches still tiny green buds but they are turning into curled leaves

 

[vp999]

Wow ..why so late ? All of mine have fruits already.