Question for Walter..

greerhw

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Walter, is there anything you can't grow in your climate that you would like to have ?

keep it green,
Harry
 

Walter Pall

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Sure,

JBP do not grow well, because it is not warm enough and the vegetation period is too short. But we have the native Austrian black pine, Pinus nigra. And we don't have collected raw material from JBP anyway.
many mediterranean trees don't grow well and overwintering is a pain: olives, Olea europea, Phillirea latifolia, Juniperus phoeniciana.
Californian junipers, fig trees.
Pemphis acidula and other Indonesian species.
and many other tropical and semi-tropical trees and trees of hot semi-deserts.
But we have many that thrive, just look at my gallery. I am not really complaining. I have too many anyways.
And I can grow very well: Ponderosa pines, Pinus ponderosa; Rocky Mountain Juniper, Juniperus scopulorum; lodgepole pine, Pinus contorta; all American spruces, and many others. It is a myth that these trees don't do well in most parts of America. After we have changed a few things. ponderosa and RMJ are doing very well in Harrsiburg, PA.
 
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greerhw

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Sure,

JBP do not grow well, because it is not warm enough and the vegetation period is too short. But we have the native Austrian black pine, Pinus nigra. And we don't have collected raw material from JBP anyway.
many mediterranean trees don't grow well and overwintering is a pain: olives, Olea europea, Phillirea latifolia, Juniperus phoeniciana.
Californian junipers, fig trees.
Pemphis acidula and other Indonesian species.
and many other tropical and semi-tropical trees and trees of hot semi-deserts.
But we have many that thrive, just look at my gallery. I am not really complaining. I have too many anyways.
And I can grow very well: Ponderosa pines, Pinus ponderosa; Rocky Mountain Juniper, Juniperus scopulorum; lodgepole pine, Pinus contorta; all American spruces, and many others. It is a myth that these trees don't do well in most parts of America. After we have changed a few things. ponderosa and RMJ are doing very well in Harrsiburg, PA.

Let me in on your secret that allows RMJ to grow well in Penn, I won't tell anyone. They do not do well in Oklahoma unless you want to spend ten years on them and graft Itowaga foliage. Colorado spruce struggle here, all D trees struggle except the native ones. No myth involved in what I've told you.

keep it green,
Harry
 

Walter Pall

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Harry,

RMJ, Ponderosa and a few more:

1) very well draining modern substrate
2) water EVERY day, on hot days water twice, water VERY much, make everything including the trunk and the foliage dripping wet, use normal pipe water, can be very hard, as long as you dog drinks it.
3) feed every week to every two weeks throughout the vegetation period, feed much stronger than we learned, feed MUCH nitrogen, feed organic and chemical, forget totally about silly cakes, get your feed form the farmer supply or garden store, feed MORE than the prescription says, not less.
4) leave trees in full sun throughout the summer. Do NOT protect from rain.
5) place in the half shade or shade in winter, outside is fine, freezing of root ball is fine.

That's it
 

greerhw

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Harry,

RMJ, Ponderosa and a few more:

1) very well draining modern substrate
2) water EVERY day, on hot days water twice, water VERY much, make everything including the trunk and the foliage dripping wet, use normal pipe water, can be very hard, as long as you dog drinks it.
3) feed every week to every two weeks throughout the vegetation period, feed much stronger than we learned, feed MUCH nitrogen, feed organic and chemical, forget totally about silly cakes, get your feed form the farmer supply or garden store, feed MORE than the prescription says, not less.
4) leave trees in full sun throughout the summer. Do NOT protect from rain.
5) place in the half shade or shade in winter, outside is fine, freezing of root ball is fine.

That's it

Ok, I understand why that would help RMJ, but I have a hard time with using to much fertilizer on ponderosa, especially ones you want to keep the needles as short as possible. The advice I've been given on small ponderosa is to only water in the growing season and then fertilizer in the fall to help with next years bud growth.

keep it green,
Harry
 

Walter Pall

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Harry,

the needles get short when the tree has many more buds. Only a very healthy pine gets more buds. The more fertilized and watered the more buds. The more buds the shorter the needles eventually.
In the end only one thing counts: who has the densest ponderosas with short needles.

Look at my ponderosas.
 

Walter Pall

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Two ponderosa pines normal size, the third one is shohin size. All watered and fed aggressively since years. So who is right?
 

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greerhw

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Harry,

the needles get short when the tree has many more buds. Only a very healthy pine gets more buds. The more fertilized and watered the more buds. The more buds the shorter the needles eventually.
In the end only one thing counts: who has the densest ponderosas with short needles.

Look at my ponderosas.

Are your Ponderosa's in Germany, how long is your growing season. My growing season is seven months long, it's even difficult to keep JBP needles short after decandling in July, they just keep growing, especially if you fertilize them. Different climates, a different set of problems.

keep it green,
Harry
 

Bill S

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Walter all those years of practicing bonsai has given you some fine , and healthy trees .
I would say that you are doing something right.:)

Not sure if you know it Harry but Walter has a fine collection here in the States too, don't know where though. But by the description of how to handle them, it should work anywere.
 

greerhw

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Walter all those years of practicing bonsai has given you some fine , and healthy trees .
I would say that you are doing something right.:)

Not sure if you know it Harry but Walter has a fine collection here in the States too, don't know where though. But by the description of how to handle them, it should work anywere.

From my experience, I have to disagree with you. It depends on the climate as to what works best for different spieces. I will give Walter's advice a try for one season and see what happens. My advice to Walter for JBP won't work for him, too short a growing season, like he said. I'm not trying to diss anyone, I'm just giving my opinion and I appreciate the information Walter gave me and I'm going to try it on one of my Ponderosas and report back next fall.

keep it green,
Harry
 
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greerhw

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Two ponderosa pines normal size, the third one is shohin size. All watered and fed aggressively since years. So who is right?

I never questioned whether you were right or not, I don't have the experience you do. I was just questioning growing periods and if your fertilizing regiment will work in my longer growing season. I love the normal size trees, but the shohin doesn't do it for me. Wrong species for shohin no matter where you live, unless you cut the needles.

keep it green,
Harry
 

JasonG

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I never questioned whether you were right or not, I don't have the experience you do. I was just questioning growing periods and if your fertilizing regiment will work in my longer growing season. I love the normal size trees, but the shohin doesn't do it for me. Wrong species for shohin no matter where you live, unless you cut the needles.

keep it green,
Harry

That shohin is an amazing one of a kind native american pine.....that trunk on that is beyond super fat!! That tree is amazing. Cutting needles on ponderosa is fine, many jbp needles get cut too....its just the name of the game when it comes to pines in development.
 

greerhw

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That shohin is an amazing one of a kind native american pine.....that trunk on that is beyond super fat!! That tree is amazing. Cutting needles on ponderosa is fine, many jbp needles get cut too....its just the name of the game when it comes to pines in development.

It's also butt ugly the way it looks now, cut the needles and then lets see what it looks like. I doubt if even Walter can pull off 3/4" needles on a Ponderosa. I'm not trying to diss anyone, I'm just giving my opinion and I appreciate the information Walter gave me and I'm going to try it on one of my Ponderosas and report back next fall.



keep it green,
Harry
 
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Tachigi

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I will give Walter's advice a try for one season and see what happens. My advice to Walter for JBP won't work for him, too short a growing season, like he said.

keep it green,
Harry

Harry I think your commitment will need to a bit longer than one season to appreciate the effect.

Walter , could you confirm if the shown Ponderosas reside in your garden in Germany. If so can you give us a peek at the ones in Harrisburg?
 

greerhw

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Harry I think your commitment will need to a bit longer than one season to appreciate the effect.

Walter , could you confirm if the shown Ponderosas reside in your garden in Germany. If so can you give us a peek at the ones in Harrisburg?

You'll never guess what I bought, and I'm going to ask the guy I bought it from, how he does it.......:p

keep it green,
Harry
 

Tachigi

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You'll never guess what I bought, and I'm going to ask the guy I bought it from, how he does it.......:p

keep it green,
Harry

LOL...say it ain't so!!!! ........ Congrats on the acquisition, should have told me I could have gotten ya a discount ;)
 

greerhw

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LOL...say it ain't so!!!! ........ Congrats on the acquisition, should have told me I could have gotten ya a discount ;)

We worked out a mutual agreement ! Nothing worth a crap is cheap and never will be.....;)
I will have to work on the Ponderosa's myself, Marco doesn't like them.

keep it green,
Harry
 
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cquinn

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We worked out a mutual agreement ! Nothing worth a crap is cheap and never will be.....;)
I will have to work on the Ponderosa's myself, Marco doesn't like them.

keep it green,
Harry

That's so true. I'm fairly young, 30, but I'm buying one good conifer a year. I figure it's best to buy the best you can afford. Imagine what a 30 to 50 year old tree will look like in another 30 years. I am growing seedlings though, but only Deciduous (Tridents and Japanese Maples). I enjoy growing them, and it's hard to find good maple stock for bonsai. More so for Japanese Maples than Tridents. One can find tons of good Tridents, but fewer Japanese Maples for some reason.
 

Walter Pall

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Tom,

the trees that I showed are indeed in Germany.
Here you can see just a few of the trees that I have in Harrisburg; PA: http://walter-pall.de/American_Pines.jpg.dir/.
Since I am only there once a year they cannot look as good as the ones in my garden. From April 22 to 27 I will be at Nature's Way Nursery again to work on my trees together with students. There are still some openings. I will have lots of new trees then again.
 

greerhw

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Tom,

the trees that I showed are indeed in Germany.
Here you can see just a few of the trees that I have in Harrisburg; PA: http://walter-pall.de/American_Pines.jpg.dir/.
Since I am only there once a year they cannot look as good as the ones in my garden. From April 22 to 27 I will be at Nature's Way Nursery again to work on my trees together with students. There are still some openings. I will have lots of new trees then again.

Excellent material Walter, glad you can't take them with you...........:D

keep it green,
Harry
 

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