Question on a Chinese Elm Air Layer

[Jetson1950]

I started this air layer in mid April (2 months age). The air layer container is starting to fill with roots, so looks to be a good air layer. The main trunk below the air layer is putting out lots of new limbs. I’ve never air layered this big of a limb, so have a couple of questions.

The Branch, actually the main trunk, at the point of air layer is about 3/4” across. My air layer container is 3” x 3” x 3”. I’m topping this part of the tree now and will do another lower air layer next year to have three trees.

First question. I’m not in any hurry with this one, so thinking I can let this thing go till next spring before I cut it off and plant it. I know it will go dormant, but here in zone 9b, we don’t get much cold. Is there any down side to leaving it be for a year and let it continue to build roots while being supported by the trunk below it.

Second question. Once I am ready to cut and pot it, how much top should I leave on the newly potted tree. It will have a 3/4” trunk now, but the current top to that trunk is at least three feet high with lots of branching. I’m thinking that’s too much top for the container of Roots I’m growing. I plan on trimming it down at some point to start training it, but not sure how much top to leave until it gets reestablished on its own roots.

Thanks.

 

[Shibui]

thinking I can let this thing go till next spring before I cut it off and plant it. I know it will go dormant, but here in zone 9b, we don’t get much cold. Is there any down side to leaving it be for a year and let it continue to build roots while being supported by the trunk below it.

The down side to leaving your layer in place is that the new roots will take over supplying the top soon. They will need more and more water. At least your container is open so you can water when it needs. I've lost wrapped layers because the roots used all the moisture then the top died from dehydration.
Otherwise you really just have another Chinese elm in a pot. Provided you can manage it there's no real problem with waiting.

Once I am ready to cut and pot it, how much top should I leave on the newly potted tree. It will have a 3/4” trunk now, but the current top to that trunk is at least three feet high with lots of branching. I’m thinking that’s too much top for the container of Roots I’m growing. I plan on trimming it down at some point to start training it, but not sure how much top to leave until it gets reestablished on its own roots.

I routinely reduce the tops to match the available roots but I have also been surprised at how much top a few small roots can support. I don't think there's any measure of how much to cut and how much to retain. Just have to do what you feel is good but there seems to be a very wide range of what will work.

 

[Jetson1950]

The down side to leaving your layer in place is that the new roots will take over supplying the top soon. They will need more and more water. At least your container is open so you can water when it needs. I've lost wrapped layers because the roots used all the moisture then the top died from dehydration.
Otherwise you really just have another Chinese elm in a pot. Provided you can manage it there's no real problem with waiting.


I routinely reduce the tops to match the available roots but I have also been surprised at how much top a few small roots can support. I don't think there's any measure of how much to cut and how much to retain. Just have to do what you feel is good but there seems to be a very wide range of what will work.

Thanks! I have been in bonsai long enough to understand and accomplish techniques, but not so long that I still don’t scare myself when I start chopping off the tops being worried I’m going to kill something.

Last question. The original tree is still in a large garden pot and will stay there until I finish all the air layers. Once I cut off the air layered top, should I put the new tree into garden pot soil to get established, or would it be okay to go ahead and start it on bonsai soil in a garden pot.

 

[BrianBay9]

Your air layer, once separated, can do straight into bonsai soil, as long as your watering and fertilizing program matches the soil type you're using. As for when to separate the layer, that might depend on where you are and the climate you expect over the next few months. If you put your general location in your profile people can give you better advice.

 

[Jetson1950]

Your air layer, once separated, can do straight into bonsai soil, as long as your watering and fertilizing program matches the soil type you're using. As for when to separate the layer, that might depend on where you are and the climate you expect over the next few months. If you put your general location in your profile people can give you better advice.

Updated. Zone 9b here. This time of year we are already seeing heat indexes above 105. July and August are brutal for high heat and humidity and heat indexes up to 125. I’m well away from either coast. There are lacebark elms all over here, so they do well.

 

[BrianBay9]

I wouldn't hesitate to remove the layer now, given you are hot AND humid, and get regular rainfall through the summer. I think twice about separating a layer now where I live, given my regular 100+ heat and, low humidity and wind, and no rain again until Thanksgiving.

 

[Jetson1950]

I wouldn't hesitate to remove the layer now, given you are hot AND humid, and get regular rainfall through the summer. I think twice about separating a layer now where I live, given my regular 100+ heat and, low humidity and wind, and no rain again until Thanksgiving.

Roger that. We only have to worry about those weeks when we get 20” of rain in two days. The season has started. A tough lesson I’ve learned, which I didn’t think was possible, but here I’ve lost trees from root rot even in bonsai soil. There is extreme heat, but the constant 100% humidity and rainfall make it hard to judge when and how much to water.

 

[Shibui]

Once I cut off the air layered top, should I put the new tree into garden pot soil to get established, or would it be okay to go ahead and start it on bonsai soil in a garden pot.

General potting soil is fine for larger and deeper pots but 'bonsai soil' also works fine in grow pots so it does not really matter what you start with, however the updated location and your own admission that it can eb difficult to manage water means open, well drained soil would probably be better at any time for you.
General potting soil is much harder to manage when the pots are smaller and shallow so when you move to a smaller pot it becomes more sensible to use a typical bonsai mix.
There's no problem swapping a tree from one soil type to another soil type so if you start out with general soil, you can simply shake and rake out most of that soil when you are ready and transfer the roots to a mix better suited to small pots. Chinese elms are tough and can be bare rooted at any age.

 

[Jetson1950]

General potting soil is fine for larger and deeper pots but 'bonsai soil' also works fine in grow pots so it does not really matter what you start with, however the updated location and your own admission that it can eb difficult to manage water means open, well drained soil would probably be better at any time for you.
General potting soil is much harder to manage when the pots are smaller and shallow so when you move to a smaller pot it becomes more sensible to use a typical bonsai mix.
There's no problem swapping a tree from one soil type to another soil type so if you start out with general soil, you can simply shake and rake out most of that soil when you are ready and transfer the roots to a mix better suited to small pots. Chinese elms are tough and can be bare rooted at any age.

Good thoughts, thanks. My main endeavor this year has been to move a lot of my trees/plants into bonsai soil. I’ve finally getting it all done. I’ve also been able to rearrange some flowerbeds to get some in the ground. Biggest problem has been I moved to The Villages and new subdivisions here don’t have trees. I’m having to build my own afternoon shade. This time of year I have to crowd everything under a big Pineapple palm I planted and I’m growing Bougainvillea over a pergola on my back porch. Summer just started, so fingers crossed everything can adapt. Unfortunately the trees I like the best are northern trees. (Japanese Maples). Don’t laugh, but counting seedlings, I’ve got about 50 of them. So far, so good with them. I just can’t let even morning sun touch their leaves until they harden off.

 

[BrianBay9]

Unfortunately the trees I like the best are northern trees. (Japanese Maples). Don’t laugh, but counting seedlings, I’ve got about 50 of them. So far, so good with them. I just can’t let even morning sun touch their leaves until they harden off.

Up north people want ficus and bougies. In the south, J maples and larch. We all want what is rare or unusual in our current environment. It seems to be a constant of the human condition.

 

[Jetson1950]

Up north people want ficus and bougies. In the south, J maples and larch. We all want what is rare or unusual in our current environment. It seems to be a constant of the human condition.

When I moved here, I came from zone 8b up in the Florida panhandle. Brought my Japanese maples with me. The president of the bonsai club here said you might as well get rid of them. They won’t and can’t grow here. Of course my answer to that was, “Here, hold my beer.” If it ain’t easy, I’m all over it. They are all still alive and I keep getting more. It’s not easy, but it can be done. You just have to figure out how to give them what they need. Here are some of them. I am finding it’s much easier to grow Acer Rubrum here. There are everywhere here. Working on my first forest attempt with them

 

[BrianBay9]

My bonsai life became a whole lot easier / more satisfying when I finally decided to only growth trees that like my climate.