Selecting a branch for air layering

[heso]

I'm brand new to bonsai, and I'm quickly falling deep down the rabbit hole.

While I wait for my Japanese Maple seeds to germinate (I'm in for the decades long haul with these, I know) I want to get something that I can start playing with, learning the techniques, etc.

When I first started reading about air layering I didn't realize how small of a section of tree most people were looking at. Once I read some one point out that their main focus of the branch was only the first 6 inches, it really changed my perspective on what to look for in a branch (soon to be trunk).

All of that to say that I just bought a house with a nice choke cherry (I think, it just blossomed a couple weeks ago) tree in the yard.

I'd like some feedback regarding how you go about selecting a section for air layering. There is a section of the tree that is starting to encroach on the house so I thought it would be a good opportunity to get my feet wet with air layering and not have to worry about what happens to the branch.

Here is the section that I am looking at taking from:

What branches stick out as interesting to you? If this was your tree, how would you approach taking a section of material?

Additionally, once the section has been removed, is it typically put into the ground for a period of time to encourage root production and branch growth, or into a pot?

 

[sorce]

Heso?

Heso Motherfu@kin crazy!

Welcome to it!

You are already there.....just go one step further.....

Layer a "tree" not just a branch.
Anything with the right proportions of taper.....

Sorce

 

[heso]

These are some sections that caught my eye after a few minutes of looking at that picture.

 

[heso]

Heso?

Heso Motherfu@kin crazy!

Welcome to it!

You are already there.....just go one step further.....

Layer a "tree" not just a branch.
Anything with the right proportions of taper.....

Sorce

Thanks!

I guess at this point I'm just not sure how to evaluate proportions and taper. A week ago I had no idea how far back you could actually chop a trunk and it still recover.

I have a general idea that I'd like these first experiment trees to finish in the 15-25 inch range, but I'm really open there. Just trying to get something interesting that I can work and experiment with. Given those height ranges, I know that I'm looking for a trunk in the 2.5 to 4 inch range. What I don't know is how much more trunk girth I can expect if I put the chopped material into the ground for a while.

 

[sorce]

I'm a little drunk to get too deep.....
But @ColinFraser has some excellent threads up top right now....
Jmaple layer....elm #2....

Both have good info for you.

I think I get an eye for proper proprtions from being a Libra....
Or maybe Its just cuz I don't like shit that looks unperfect.....

Looking at a lot of good Bonsai helps.

I also got a thing that says......
Taper....is the only unnatural thing we do to these trees to make them look small.

Leaves happen....branches happen....etc...

But taper....taper is what we impart onto the tree to make it look big in small.

Proportionally correct taper.....

Once you got that down.....
Everything else falls into place!

With a lot of Godamn work!

I am a firm believer in airlayer being the fastest way to a finished tree.....

I'm with you!

Sorce

 

[Cmanz]

I would recommend developing most of the trunk while still on the parent tree and then air layering a more finished trunk that you can then develope branches on after the layer is seperated. This will allow for more rapid wound healing as well as stronger response to chops.
This is a branch that was chopped away from my roof three different times. Each chop developing the next trunk section. Then the branch was layered. The base of this trunk is 4 inches across. I am now ready to start branches and chop off the to to develop a proper apex.

 

[sorce]

View attachment 103165 I would recommend developing most of the trunk while still on the parent tree and then air layering a more finished trunk that you can then develope branches on after the layer is seperated. This will allow for more rapid wound healing as well as stronger response to chops.
This is a branch that was chopped away from my roof three different times. Each chop developing the next trunk section. Then the branch was layered. The base of this trunk is 4 inches across. I am now ready to start branches and chop off the to to develop a proper apex.

Sorce

 

[Alain]

Welcome

@Cmanz has an idea there
if you have to shop this part of the tree I'd be you I'd do it for example here:

and I will wait and see how it buds back. Once you will have the new branches growing this might give you new ideas and it will always be time to start the layers (next year most certainly).

However if you also want to air-layer (after all your tree seems big enough to try several options) you have to remember that the older the bark the harder it will be to get roots.
You also need to have leaves on the branch up the layer (which doesn't seem to be the case really on the 2 bottom left circles on your picture, but may be it's just the picture).

Anyway good luck and don't forget to fill the location part of your profile (it's help for the climate zone )

 

[BrianBay9]

Others covered taper - basically choose your future trunk line now. Don't forget you'll want to have easy access to the layer....both to establish it initially and to water it occasionally. If you have to pull out a ladder every time you want to check watering you'll get annoyed with it quick. Make it within reach.

 

[heso]

Thanks for all of the input. definitely a big help

 

[heso]

Welcome

@Cmanz has an idea there
if you have to shop this part of the tree I'd be you I'd do it for example here:
View attachment 103167
and I will wait and see how it buds back. Once you will have the new branches growing this might give you new ideas and it will always be time to start the layers (next year most certainly).

However if you also want to air-layer (after all your tree seems big enough to try several options) you have to remember that the older the bark the harder it will be to get roots.
You also need to have leaves on the branch up the layer (which doesn't seem to be the case really on the 2 bottom left circles on your picture, but may be it's just the picture).

Anyway good luck and don't forget to fill the location part of your profile (it's help for the climate zone )

So just to clarify, you're suggesting that I cut off the branches there and then wait and see how those back bud and then decide what to air layer from there?

 

[heso]

View attachment 103165 I would recommend developing most of the trunk while still on the parent tree and then air layering a more finished trunk that you can then develope branches on after the layer is seperated. This will allow for more rapid wound healing as well as stronger response to chops.
This is a branch that was chopped away from my roof three different times. Each chop developing the next trunk section. Then the branch was layered. The base of this trunk is 4 inches across. I am now ready to start branches and chop off the to to develop a proper apex.

I think that's probably the best way to approach it.

What I'm currently thinking is to select 3-4 spots to chop, and then as you and Alain suggest, see how those sections back bud.

I'll also probably select at least 1 section to air layer this season, just to get something going.

My question there is: once I find a spot where I want to air layer, I perform the technique, and then cut it off of the tree. Should that section then be planted into the ground? or into a large pot? After I plant that section, do I wait until the following season to chop back the trunk, or do I do that at the time of planting?

 

[BrianBay9]

Hopefully you'll get enough roots to separate the layer by mid to late summer. Chop the top to a reasonable size to handle but keep some green to help the roots continue to strengthen. Don't try to untangle the roots right away. Pot it or plant it to get through the winter, then have a look at straightening the roots out next spring. If the roots are sparse or look weak then give it another growing season before doing any significant work on it.

 

[CWTurner]

And please throw a couple inches of mulch, or some hosta around the base of the tree so the weedwacker doesn't kill it before you can collect your air layer.
CW

 

[Cmanz]

Heso, I would plant it in a pot of good soil. That way you can provide winter protection for it. Good soil will also help form a superior root system with roots close to the trunk that way you can transition to a bonsai pot in a few years.

Good luck with your layers. Start lots of them so you are sure to have a few good ones in the future.

 

[sorce]

I always chop the top,
Then remove the layer...
Only the stuff not used in the design..
But you gotta leave leaves.

If it's up in the tree.....
You can leave a 1/4 vinyl tube run up there to water it from the ground.

If you can devise a way to make this work....
It helps.
http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/radialayer™-a-season-saver.17046/

Other than that, Cmanz wrote you a perfect plan to follow....
Perfect.

Sorce

 

[Alain]

So just to clarify, you're suggesting that I cut off the branches there and then wait and see how those back bud and then decide what to air layer from there?

well, that's what I'm doing presently with a tree we chopped last falls because the branches were going in the power lines.
In our case it's a bit different because we totally chopped the tree but basically yes.
I finished the shop letting some stumps where I wanted my future trunk/start of big branches and now I'm waiting it to bud and makes news spouts and I'll layer it from there (probably next year)

You could see the buds which are still very shy cause of the freaking spring in IL

 

[szelelaci]

Great! I'll try it, thanks! Only think I don't get: what is soil for under the disc? Keeps more moisture, or what?

 

[szelelaci]

Great! I'll try it, thanks! Only think I don't get: what is soil for under the disc? Keeps more moisture, or what?

Sorry, my phone tricked me, it was for another thread..