Soil mix

[crust]

This is the kind of thinking that tool makers like Masakuni pray for. Some fool that thinks buying a superior tool for gobs of money will somehow propel his collection of Home Depot junipers into a collection of Kokufu masterpieces.

How many years you gonna spend on praying at the alter of bonsai soil mix before you start posting some pictures of these really great bonsai that "you did"?

Now for the good part. There is not one thing in any soil recipe that could not be afforded to the plant in many ways. The "soil" is not why a tree grows well or poor. It has nothing to do why a plant or tree grows. In a container, which we as bonsai practitioners do, soil is needed for a number of reasons.
1. to provide anchorage for the plant in a pot,
2. to fill the void provided in the pot,
3. to hold the needed moisture for the roots,
4. and provide the medium in which to hold beneficial bacteria and the needed nutrients for life. ....Period! How this is accomplished is simple. The soil medium has to have ample particle size to provide the free exchange of air and allow water to flow thru and it needs to hold enough water as vapor for long enough time to get recharged with water, and it needs to have some cation exchange (CEC) to allow fertilizer to stay within the pot and not wash thru. That is it. No magic what so ever.

How this is done makes no difference to the plant. The plant is a semi inanimate object with no nervous system, no vocal chords to speak and frankly does not know if it is a juniper from Home depot or a 600 year old deadwood masterpiece from the mountains. There are asthetics involved with the soil medium placed in the void of the pot for anchorage of the tree. While perlite may just be the best soil medium for a potted plant known to man, it looks terrible in a pot, being stark white. Pumice also is light in color and not asthetically appealing on its own. Lava is good being quite dark, and porous though heavy. Akadama, being brown in color and sifted to larger sizes and being clay which is good for moisture retention is also a good component. It does break down and turn to mud, which I do not like. I don't care who you are and could frankly care less what your professional name is, I don't want anything turning into mud in my pot. I defy anyone to prove to me how turning into mud is beneficial to the root mass, possibly making anaerobic conditions which indeed cause root rot. Not water as wrongly stated by many, anaerobic conditions. For this reason alone I will be removing akadama from my show tree soil mix this year and providing sifted and graded bark in place of the clay component. A good bark particle could also add the beneficial water retention as well as upping the CEC to above average conditions while holding its shape for years and not degrading.

Plants and trees absolutely do not need soil to grow! Plants and trees get no action from the soil that will make them grow better except controlling the size and shape of the particles for increased or decreased air exchange. This is a scientific fact and proved countless times in many voyages to outer space with NASA. The closer a soil mix is to aeroponic or hydroponic conditions, the better the plant will grow.

Now, fashionable soil is for humans and bragging rights. It is for people to feel better about the plants knowing that they have spent lots of money to make something that poor people have no access to and therefore I am doing it right! .....Period.

Lots of reading here, much of it from Universities and Ag extensions

https://www.provenwinners.com/learn/dirt-dirt-potting-soil

https://extension.illinois.edu/containergardening/soil.cfm

http://aces.nmsu.edu/ces/yard/2002/121402.html

http://garden.lovetoknow.com/wiki/Can_Plants_Grow_Without_Soil

Holy shit---Mind warp: if basic soil is science is solved how can I improve??

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10153922665731742

 

[Smoke]

Holy shit---Mind warp: if basic soil is science is solved how can I improve??

You don't improve because soil is basic science, you improve when you start stimulating the right hemisphere of your brain.

 

[crust]

You don't improve because soil is basic science, you improve when you start stimulating the right hemisphere of your brain.

Wha! Stimulate the residency of sarcasm (R hemisphere)!

 

[sorce]

There is a picture of him somewhere holding a bag of akadama and smiling.

I think that was a picture of that Cali hippie grow power stuff.
Either way......

If you get that as your first picture of Al.....

Your understanding of him is different, am I right?

That smile! Goofy and intoxicating!

Makes you read every post different....
Post the picture Smoke.

Sorce

 

[sorce]

So which kind of akadama is everybody talking about as there are some big differences within this. Some you can crush with your fingers, some of the hard baked stuff, yakiakadama is very hard. This stuff doesnt break down easily

In defense of @Andrew Thomas

The above quoted.....
Is exactly why we hate Akadama!

Like y'all hate Turface.

There Is a few types....no one can read the bag....and they Probly always use the wrong shit...

Bottom line....
Research.

Sorce

 

[wireme]

This is the kind of thinking that tool makers like Masakuni pray for. Some fool that thinks buying a superior tool for gobs of money will somehow propel his collection of Home Depot junipers into a collection of Kokufu masterpieces.

How many years you gonna spend on praying at the alter of bonsai soil mix before you start posting some pictures of these really great bonsai that "you did"?

Now for the good part. There is not one thing in any soil recipe that could not be afforded to the plant in many ways. The "soil" is not why a tree grows well or poor. It has nothing to do why a plant or tree grows. In a container, which we as bonsai practitioners do, soil is needed for a number of reasons.
1. to provide anchorage for the plant in a pot,
2. to fill the void provided in the pot,
3. to hold the needed moisture for the roots,
4. and provide the medium in which to hold beneficial bacteria and the needed nutrients for life. ....Period! How this is accomplished is simple. The soil medium has to have ample particle size to provide the free exchange of air and allow water to flow thru and it needs to hold enough water as vapor for long enough time to get recharged with water, and it needs to have some cation exchange (CEC) to allow fertilizer to stay within the pot and not wash thru. That is it. No magic what so ever.

How this is done makes no difference to the plant. The plant is a semi inanimate object with no nervous system, no vocal chords to speak and frankly does not know if it is a juniper from Home depot or a 600 year old deadwood masterpiece from the mountains. There are asthetics involved with the soil medium placed in the void of the pot for anchorage of the tree. While perlite may just be the best soil medium for a potted plant known to man, it looks terrible in a pot, being stark white. Pumice also is light in color and not asthetically appealing on its own. Lava is good being quite dark, and porous though heavy. Akadama, being brown in color and sifted to larger sizes and being clay which is good for moisture retention is also a good component. It does break down and turn to mud, which I do not like. I don't care who you are and could frankly care less what your professional name is, I don't want anything turning into mud in my pot. I defy anyone to prove to me how turning into mud is beneficial to the root mass, possibly making anaerobic conditions which indeed cause root rot. Not water as wrongly stated by many, anaerobic conditions. For this reason alone I will be removing akadama from my show tree soil mix this year and providing sifted and graded bark in place of the clay component. A good bark particle could also add the beneficial water retention as well as upping the CEC to above average conditions while holding its shape for years and not degrading.

Plants and trees absolutely do not need soil to grow! Plants and trees get no action from the soil that will make them grow better except controlling the size and shape of the particles for increased or decreased air exchange. This is a scientific fact and proved countless times in many voyages to outer space with NASA. The closer a soil mix is to aeroponic or hydroponic conditions, the better the plant will grow.

Now, fashionable soil is for humans and bragging rights. It is for people to feel better about the plants knowing that they have spent lots of money to make something that poor people have no access to and therefore I am doing it right! .....Period.

Lots of reading here, much of it from Universities and Ag extensions

https://www.provenwinners.com/learn/dirt-dirt-potting-soil

https://extension.illinois.edu/containergardening/soil.cfm

http://aces.nmsu.edu/ces/yard/2002/121402.html

http://garden.lovetoknow.com/wiki/Can_Plants_Grow_Without_Soil

I've been waiting for this post, hoping it would come along, now, Andrew said he was done posting on the thread but I hope he changes his mind because I really would like to see a response!

 

[Anthony]

Al had a picture on BSG, with a bag, held to his belly, a smile, but no pink thong or any thong or Nessie or anything else sighted..

From reading the Rodale Compost book, it says that Peat Moss also encourages fine root hairs, just like Al is looking into
fir bark, and others are also showing images of fine root growth into bark.

There are also comments in - Sigh - Bonsai Today - on clay problems in the trunk root zone.
Common sense, you want to avoid choking up your tree's core.
Hence the pie or Boon made public, half core removal technique.

Just did a 30 + year old Malpighia e. the half core idea will not work, the shrub with age builds a root mass more akin
to a solid block of wood. Pie cuts for this one, next repotting.
This shrub, is happy in the open ground in pure clay, as the mother shrub grows outside in the backyard.

What you are trying to figure out is - after say 20+ years, will your tree, have very refined branchlets and smaller, finer
and many more leaves.
The ageing of the bark and branches is genetic, once the tree is growing after age 10.
Happy Wars.
Anthony -------------- we just did another batch of trees - and the previous batch are back in the sun --------- wahhhhhhhhhhooooooooooooo!!!!

 

[ColinFraser]

If it didn't have that unnecessary personal sting in it, I would've called it a perfect post....

 

[M. Frary]

View attachment 91357

You do know what happens when the first bunny is caught by the second one,right.

 

[Smoke]

You do know what happens when the first bunny is caught by the second one,right.

More pots?

 

[M. Frary]

More pots?

Someone gets screwed.

 

[fredman]

Yep someone ....

 

[Anthony]

If you really don't like Mr and Mrs, just re-glaze.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[sorce]

You do know what happens when the first bunny is caught by the second one,right.

2 for one eagle meal deal!

Did you guys see the viral Snowy Owl Video from Toronto?
http://www.independent.co.uk/enviro...re-snow-weather-montreal-canada-a6801816.html

They found chunks of akadama in his pellets.

Sorce

 

[fredman]

If you really don't like Mr and Mrs, just re-glaze.

Or plant baby carrots

 

[Perry574]

Michael has very little interest in himself, and if you ever met him, you would realize just how wrong you are.

 

[sorce]

wrong

Welcome to Crazy!

Young Eliti.

Please quote what you speak of, you can highlight it, and click reply, or hit the reply button by the post itself.

Vary Curious....

Why do you begin Here, in a soil War?

Is the Eliti force growing?

Or is this a one post wonder?

Which tells us much of the Elitii force!
But also totally clears Adair of being elitist! Or does it?

Stay tuned for Return of The Elitii.
Elitii with Tanuki?

Sorce

 

[sorce]

Michael has very little interest in himself, and if you ever met him, you would realize just how wrong you are.

Nobody hates a lumberjack hippie...
Oxymoron.

He's not a hippie?

Sorce

 

[Eric Group]

Ok, there are lots of great options for soil as has been stated previously. Is "Akadama" a ""Super ingredient"? Probably not. It is good stuff though for a water retentive element with a good particle size.. Yeah, it breaks down over time as roots fill the pot, but according to some this is beneficial... At the very least it seems a good indicator of when is a good time to report the tree!

If I had to point to one ingredient that is seemingly MADE FOR BONSAI (is is NOT, but just seems like it is perfect, may BE the "super ingredient") I would say it is pumice!
Pourous surface- lots of areas to hold water and for water evaporation/ ion exchange.. All that good stuff.
Irregular shapes- when coupled with the fact it does not "break down" into mush, this means it retains a pourous soil structure..
JUST heavy enough that it won't float right out the pot easily like perlite, but light enough that your pot won't wish to more than it should because of the addition of pumice to the mix...
Light color somewhat unappealing, but it is not completely STARK WHITE like perlite..

Overall, I have found that pumice mixed with anything (turface and Pune barked JUST pine bark, Akadama, lava And Akadama, PEAT for peat's sake, COMPOST...) I have tried for bonsai mixes has it been VERY successful, and many of the experts out there use Pumice alone to plant collected material in as a means of bringing it back to health, so I imagine pumice ALONE is a fine bonsai "soil"... Kanuma is after all a type of pumice basically and many people swear by it as the sole ingredient for Azaleas...

So, if affordability, availability... Is an issue, then this may be the best part! Pumice is relatively affordable compared to Akadama and even a bit cheaper than lava in my experience! If you want to "splurge" and get one great ingredient to add to your "budget bonsai" mix, make it pumice. You can find LARGE bags on eBay.. 3 gallons +, For about $23 or so including shipping! Easily worth it IMO...

 

[thumblessprimate1]

Regarding perlite, have you tried a different method of watering? I use an extra fine spray, sort of like misting; keeps the substrate from washing away or floating. As it's kept saturated it seems to stay in place as well as pumice. If you over saturate it, then it begins to float.