Teaching bonsai to someone who just won't learn

Joe Dupre'

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I think the scenes of bonsai in the Karate Kid were a help and a hindrance. The "help" was to actually get more people interested in bonsai. The "hindrance" was that all they saw was a wise old man trimming tiny pieces of foliage and thought that looked cool and kind of Zen. Also, if you search "bonsai" you get a lot of pictures of the best bonsai in the world and they think anyone can do that with an $8.00 procumbens from Lowe's.

I'll continue to help the ones that are serious and not hold the hands of the ones that I feel are not. No one held my hand. I drove 40 miles to see a bonsai show for several years until I finally joined the club there. Until recently, if I wanted to talk about or see bonsai............40 miles. Of course, Bnut was and is a godsend in my learning. Several months ago I met a bonsai guy less than a half mile down the road..........in rural South Louisiana...........imagine that. It would have been more likely to find someone building an igloo or something. Lol!
 

Mike Corazzi

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There are times when we must look to the east for answers.

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amatbrewer

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A long time ago when the latest fad at my company was the “7 Habits” I recall a memorable example that Steven Covey used in one of the lectures we listened to. I don’t recall the details but the basics of it were that YOU can’t change someone else. They need to be open to what you are telling/showing/teaching them or nothing you do will make the slightest difference. It’s kind of like the old adage “you can bring a horse to water…”.You can (and should) do your best to try to open them up to what they need to learn/understand (which in my view should take priority to the actual material being taught), but if they do so is entirely up to them. With my wife being an educator, I have seen examples (good and bad) of this time and time again, to know this is true. Sometimes sad and more than a little frustrating, but true none the less. I can't tell you how many times I have witnessed the difference between learning or not being not what/how it was taught, but what was done to help the student be ready and open to the opportunity.
So my suggestion is to “lead them to water”, maybe by trying different paths, but don’t insist they drink. They will or won’t, and trying to force the issue will only make them more resistant. If and when they are open to it, they will take it in. Until then you can do no more than keep giving them every possible opportunity while not causing them to become more resistant.

BTW I like the use of the analogy, but I would suggest a way to make it a little more equivalent: “Would you grab a handful of seeds and a fertilized turkey egg, and expect to make a traditional Thanksgiving dinner in 3 days?”
 

Joe Dupre'

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"BTW I like the use of the analogy, but I would suggest a way to make it a little more equivalent: “Would you grab a handful of seeds and a fertilized turkey egg, and expect to make a traditional Thanksgiving dinner in 3 days?”

Yeah, that would be closer to the reality.
 

Joe Dupre'

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I finally got around to putting up a pic of her work. Yeah, pot's probably too big and the branches are too long, but for a rank amateur, not a bad composition for her first attempt. I'm quite sure she cringed when she cut off most of the tree. LOL. She did clue me in on the nursery where she bought the pot. I went there today and was impressed with the selection and prices.

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Vance Wood

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I dunno Vance. I’ve seen a lot of poor work turned out by people who’ve been doing this a looooong time.
I don't disagree with you, other than some people are just too lazy to produce decent bonsai, I don't think it it's because they cannot. I think it's because they are too lazy to pay attention to some of the simple by the number cookie cutter shapes where they could pass off something as a tolerable bonsai talent or no. This is why years ago we had a long and convoluted discussion on whether bonsai was an art or a craft. If you approach bonsai as a craft you can produce a mediocre bonsai. Their real problem is that they only pay attention to bonsai at times when it suits them. Most of us are thinking about bonsai, looking at bonsai, reading about bonsai and practicing bonsai all the time.
 

Doug J

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I advise beginners who have stuck it out for more than six months to a year to go out and buy the best developed bonsai they can. That satisfies the urge to have something to look at. It takes pressure off of what's still cooking in development stages...
Rock solid advice. Applies to me 100% . I am two years into this "hobby"/obsession. I was buying lots of 'sticks in pots' from Brussel's and others. At 58 years old, I finally grasped how long it would take my 'sticks' to develop. I've upped my game a bit and purchased some better material from Brent at evergreen garden works and others, just to satisfy the itch of having something satisfying to look at. Will post pics and seek advice on these trees in the future. I'm new to this forum, and it's an invaluable resource. Thanks to everyone.
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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I dunno Vance. I’ve seen a lot of poor work turned out by people who’ve been doing this a looooong time.

They say beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I don't understand - and actually actively refuse to understand - some types of art as a beholder.
I've seen African museums filled with objects I would never consider art or even good craftmanship. Maybe we think some bonsai are poor work because we ourselves are "limited" by our views. That's what they told me in the museums at least..
I wasn't able to see the beauty of wood ruined with a pickaxe, or a bunch of snail shells braided into a pattern, due to my own mental limitations. Or.. It might have been crappy art. We'll never know!
Subjectivity is what makes art great, but it doesn't make it good.
 
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I disagree with the conclusion that some don't have an artists eye. It is possible to learn form and style and it is possible to produce cookie cutter bonsai for the rest of your life. It is possible to go beyond that if you choose to do so, most people do not choose to do so. It is easier for them to make the incompetence claim rather than hold themselves accountable.

I agree with this. Doesn’t take much of an imagination to go outside or on google just to look at trees, learn the way a tree grows towards the sun. Maybe it lived a crazy windy life and was knocked over and survived. All new branching/foliage positions itself the best they can to reach light. When a branch pointing at the sun is elongated with extra weight it can no longer support it bends down and finds its new lower position. Once settled new growth at end of branching is then again pointing towards the sun.

Just sticking to the basics of designing a nice bonsai and improve your artistic ability along the way
 

Joe Dupre'

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We as somewhat creative people think that most anyone has that gift. I saw a lecture with a leading psychiatrist where he said that a very large percentage of the population has NEVER had a creative thought. Kinda scary, but I think it's pretty accurate. I have musical friends that think that anyone can learn to play a guitar. They think it's no big thing because THEY have a certain talent for it. I've tried and it is just not in the cards. I have an older friend who is not only not creative, but he doesn't even understand the need or the attraction of art of any kind. "Why would you want to do that?" Sigh...........
 
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