The Double Colander ------ is this it's use.

[A Random User]

No; I am not telling you that, but they do grow differently and the difference can be favorable. The trunks will continue to thicken, some say they wont and they are wrong, and the bark they produce is far more attractive than bark produce on trees in the ground for the same number of years in comparison.

However; here is a point. If you have ever seen a Ponderosa Pine in Yosemite Valley, the bark on one of those giants is beautiful and distinctive, almost like a checker board. I have never seen a collected or pot grown Pondy with this kind of bark. Conclusion: In order for a Pondy to acquire this kind of bark the tree has to be mature and free growing.

If you grow a tree in the ground the trunk will thicken but the bark will remain featureless compared to the same species of tree grown in a Bonsai Training Planter, colander, or pond basket. The bark in these trees tend to adhere and stack up instead of flacking off in much the same way a pine sheds older needles. Anyone who has payed attention to the developing bark on younger Pines will notice how easily it is damaged and flakes off.

Vance, what are we going back n forth on?
@Anthony posted his thread regarding the use of double colanders...
To me sure if you want to use both of them cool. The whole point of the use of a colander is to allow more oxygen and root prune. Using the two allows for more oxygen but doesn't root prune. So, one could argue putting a tree just in a normal bonsai pot is pretty much going to do the sane thing. They could put it on top of another pot, the ground, in the soil as I have suggested, and allow for drastic growth and roots to run free... Seeing this is the whole point of why one would to then put one on top of another. I do the very same thing with my shohin and mame ' s, especially the one's that have very active growth... I sit them on top of larger pot with soil, so they can still remain active in the growing season, and I don't have to keep cutting roots coming out the bottom of the pot... especially in my location... Seeing that most of our trees down here don't air prune... they will grow out the bottoms of the pot, across the benches and down to the ground if I let them.

All I have said is that it is counterproductive to try and grow a tree out ( trying to obtain massive growth) in one of these. That it would be better if one is trying to do this, not to use it.

No where in any of this was a discussion regarding bark? Sure, I can see how growing a tree very slowly with lots of oxygen to the roots, is going to help establish perhaps better looking bark. I can also understand @Adair's point as well of establishing perhaps a better radiating nebari... I get all of this and I am not saying otherwise.

Growing a tree in such conditions is going to drastically effect everything and make it smaller, whether it is bark, roots, branches, nodes spacing, foliage, etc...
But, this is just the opposite of growing a tree out, isn't it? Which is all I have said...

I have put trees in colanders to see the effects for myself first hand... I do not longer use them... I haven't seen the advantage in my location, that I can't get through using a normal bonsai pot. I have actually found that anything I put in one didn't do as well... mostly due to my amount of sun and growing season. They didn't stay moist long enough and I wasn't going to water them 10 times a day. Not only would my wife kill me seeing our water bill would be enormous, but I would quite literally spend every moment of the day doing so.

 

[A Random User]

Sorry but that is simply not true at all milehigh. I don't want to sidetrack this topic and turn it into a fish keeping discussion though. All fish need O2 obviously, but that has zero to do with growth rates in an aquarium.

Would have to agree with you... I have always heard this being said as well, but it is my experience with having fish that it has more probably to do with the availability of food than anything else... not only the food I give them, but also the algae and plant life they consume b within the tank, or pond.

 

[Adair M]

When someone is frightened by me, they recoil away from me. A trunk that leans away feels the same to me.
A trunk that leans forward feels friendly to me. Branch 1 and branch 2 are like open arms.

It communicates emotionally.

That, too is true.

 

[whfarro]

How about a triple? If 2 colanders work, why not three or four to produce some seriously awesome nebari.

 

[GroveKeeper]

What if you want to create a tree that is frightening or uninviting? I find it strange that so few trees are styled in such a way.

 

[Vance Wood]

What if you want to create a tree that is frightening or uninviting? I find it strange that so few trees are styled in such a way.

You find few trees styled or designed in this way on purpose because no one wants one. For the same reason few men would take a 650# woman or man , depending on preference, to the alter of marriage with no teeth, incredibly, bad breath, bad attitude and the disposition of a 650# ugly person having bad day. Other than that I cannot understand why someone would pass up such a catch.

 

[Adair M]

Nick Lenz did some strange trees. He was Crust's mentor I believe.

 

[M. Frary]

What if you want to create a tree that is frightening or uninviting? I find it strange that so few trees are styled in such a way.

Like this one? I think this tree is very cool. Looks like it wants to get a hold of you.

 

[GroveKeeper]

You find few trees styled or designed in this way on purpose because no one wants one. For the same reason few men would take a 650# woman or man , depending on preference, to the alter of marriage with no teeth, incredibly, bad breath, bad attitude and the disposition of a 650# ugly person having bad day. Other than that I cannot understand why someone would pass up such a catch.

Vance, when I said "Frighting or uninviting" I didn't mean ugly or poorly styled. I meant a tree that was purposefully(and well) styled to be unnerving or creepy.
I have a theory that if you were to intentionally style a tree to appear creepy, unsettling or stuck in the dark side of the uncanny valley that makes human's fundamentally uncomfortable, you would probably have the most poorly review tree at any show. But you would probably have the tree that everyone was staring at.
Humans are morbidly curious. If we weren't, people wouldn't watch horror movies, or read about gruesome deaths, or collect serial killer memorabilia. I'm sure that even the ancient codgers who don't understand Eli Roth movies watched "Space Invaders from the 9th dimension" when they were teenagers in the 80s and 90s. Every human has a little part of them that wants to creeped out or made to feel uncomfortable.
You can actually see this in many of the grotesque "sumo" style trees. And to a wider degree, the art of bonsai is obsessed with trees that fall into the uncanny valley. If you look at high quality bonsai, they look weird. Like really weird. But they look weird in a way that geometrically pleases and takes advantage of a brain that is easilly tricked by putting one thing a half an inch behind another thing.
This is why I find it strange that so few people have taken this formula in the opposite direction by making a tree that is weirdly unnerving instead of weirdly pleasing. Making such a tree is a goal of mine. Hopefully one day I will be skilled enough to pull it off.

 

[milehigh_7]

Oaks lend themselves to this "spooky" look IMHO.

 

[sorce]

Now we're talking.

The world ain't nice.....

The world ain't inviting....

Turn any corner, and find yourself about to get Carped.

@GroveKeeper yes.

Where's October?
Grimm?

Every tree ain't nice....emotions.....stir em!

Sorce

 

[GroveKeeper]

Like this one? I think this tree is very cool. Looks like it wants to get a hold of you.View attachment 91758

It's a little spooky but it's still fairly pleasant to look at.

There is an oak tree not far from my house that has elements of the "unnerving" style that I'm referring to. It has this one long, threatening branch that zig-zags up and down and juts out like it literally is trying catch something. I'll try to take a picture of it later.

 

[Adair M]

Grovekeeper, not everyone finds Sumo trees "grotesque".

I personally do not care for the "Monster Trucks", with the huge tractor tires. Some really do. I wouldn't call them "grotesque".

Just not to my taste.

 

[GroveKeeper]

Gro riddler, not everyone finds Sumo trees "grotesque"

Those people would be wrong. Sumo trees are by definition, grotesque. They are a completely disproportionate, distorted and absurd representations of a tree.

That doesn't mean there is anything wrong with them from a bonsai or artistic standpoint or that they can't be "beautiful" to some people. I don't like them but everyone has their own taste. Just understand what you're actually doing. Based on you post about perspective and the relativism of focus/views, I think you do.

 

[Anthony]

You know throughout all of this, what came up was, what really limits a tree in a pot ?
Also the air-pot folk grow their trees in pure compost.
We also have some of the larger sized air-pots.

So I wondered if you put a tree into a colander using Bonsai type soil, and later when it had grown in,
what would happen if you then put into the air-pot ?

And so another experiment begins. The compost will drain well in an air-pot and some fertiliser will
help.
Now the tree/s to test, hmm.
Let you know in a year or two.
Good Day
Anthony

* Mike, and if the background were not so dramatic ? Lending atmosphere to the lighting.

 

[Vance Wood]

Those people would be wrong. Sumo trees are by definition, grotesque. They are a completely disproportionate, distorted and absurd representations of a tree.

That doesn't mean there is anything wrong with them from a bonsai or artistic standpoint or that they can't be "beautiful" to some people. I don't like them but everyone has their own taste. Just understand what you're actually doing. Based on you post about perspective and the relativism of focus/views, I think you do.

Yea---I kind of feel the same way about the suppository style. It's too anal for me.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Now here's a view from the side:
View attachment 91731
Definately moves forward. The apex is just a little forward of the nebari.

Seeing the left side of your pine gives me an appreciation for this tree; good dynamic shape, pads, and movement.
We talked about this forward lean once before...always an interesting topic to discuss in a format where we're largely resigned to 2D photos.
http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/the-forward-lean.11958/#post-151644

 

[Adair M]

Seeing the left side of your pine gives me an appreciation for this tree; good dynamic shape, pads, and movement.
We talked about this forward lean once before...always an interesting topic to discuss in a format where we're largely resigned to 2D photos.
http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/the-forward-lean.11958/#post-151644

Thanks, Brian. Trees always look better in person.

 

[sorce]

Trees always look better in person.

Unless they're dead by the time you get there!
Plug it in plug it in.

Sorce

 

[Aiki_Joker]

Just pointing out.....

We have stated facts of different soils in different areas......

And here we have Tropical Climates arguing with Snow Climates.

Is it not enough to know that in the tropics.....they can lift these in months from the ground....and still have months to grow them that season.

We agree that tops grow different in these places....
Repotting times are differnet....

But for some reason....we lost this knowledge when it comes to roots?

Sorce

Indeed. Just getting to know tropicals in tropical climates and these are definitely different!