The toughness of a Tamarack

[M. Frary]

It would be. For sure.

 

[Vance Wood]

Here is the Larch I collected from the Manistee River area in 1982. This is the same tree I mentioned to you that needs a total redesign. I lost the entire left trunk so now, instead of a bonsai, it's a piece of raw material. This is the way the tree looked ten years ago. I do not have a recent photo.

 

[M. Frary]

Oh yeah! That's a kick in the crotch for sure. What do you think made the one whole trunk collapse. I know if they get rootbound and hot at the same time they stress. That and if they get the slightest bit dry. They are actually the one tree I have that I'm thinking about adding organic material to the soil. Not sure what yet. They're kind of like bald cypress in a lot of ways. So maybe a mix the people that have bald cypress in might be worth looking into.
Research! I love looking this stuff up.

 

[Vance Wood]

Nick Lentz says they all have bores. I do not recall seeing anything like that but who knows. I have to redesign the tree anyway.

 

[M. Frary]

All?

 

[crust]

I grow my larch with a organic based soil as does Lenz. I have found, for me, that a lean soil with little decomposing stuff makes them unhappy. Larch trees that I have collected that are old or maimed (the younger happy ones are usually OK ) more than likely have borers and I always treat them for them. The existing borers can and do kill larches once the cambium gets growing fast and is juicy. The little buggers get busy and can girdle the whole tree or kill off parts. Once the trees are are clean and growing steadily they are less likely to get new borers, I think, because of a strong sap response. My post-collection treatment nowadays is to soak the trunks and deadwood with strong insecticide and then treat them with Bayer's Advance 12 month tree and shrub insect control II 5 tsp per gallon once they start to move and again later when they are growing strongly.

 

[PierreR]

On tamaracks as far as development goes, are you still removing down ward growing branches/buds? How are you pruning? Do they backbud?

 

[Vance Wood]

You need to remove up and down growth or they take off in any direction they want. Sometimes; at the expense of things you may want to keep. They are not real good at back budding, at least the Laricina is not. I have heard people talk about back budding on Japanese Larch and I seem to remember it being mentioned with the European Larch.

 

[B.uneasy]

Is it worth planting larch seeds? Would you ever get anything worthwhile?

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Is it worth planting larch seeds? Would you ever get anything worthwhile?

I say yes. I have a couple that are three years old. They grow faster than most pines in my care.
Then again.. Starter material and nursery larches are pretty cheap, I think 10-20 dollars could get you a 10 year head start.

 

[M. Frary]

Is it worth planting larch seeds? Would you ever get anything worthwhile?

Been thinking about getting some.
They grow like rockets.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Seed have the advantage that you can design them any way you want. It does take time to develop trunk caliper. There is no rushing it. 15 or more years to get 4 inch diameter trunk.

Finding or buying an old collected tree has the advantage that you don't have to wait 50 or more years to get character and decent trunk caliper. Design does require you work with what you get.

 

[B.uneasy]

Seed have the advantage that you can design them any way you want. It does take time to develop trunk caliper. There is no rushing it. 15 or more years to get 4 inch diameter trunk.

Finding or buying an old collected tree has the advantage that you don't have to wait 50 or more years to get character and decent trunk caliper. Design does require you work with what you get.

Is this pot growing or ground growing for a 4 inch diameter? If I cut down short at the two year mark, wont all the trees energy be focused on the lower tree thickening the base?

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

In a large nursery pot, 15 or more years to get a 4 inch diameter trunk would be reasonable.

In the ground, 10 to 15 years to get a 4 inch diameter trunk. Then a huge problem digging it up. Unless you regularly went into the grow bed & lifted the tree to prune roots about every 3 years. Which would slow down the thickening of the trunk.

Thickening of the trunk, the rate depends on the total volume of water moving up and sap moving down the trunk. This is driven by the total surface area of the leaves on the tree. The more leaf surface area, the more rapidly the trunk will thicken. Easiest is let the tree get tall and branch out. Less easy is to read Walter Pall's Blog on Hedge pruning. More branches, holding more leaves as long as the surface area total is higher than the tall tree you are comparing it to, the hedge method can be equivalent to the let it get tall method. Key : Leaf Surface Area. More photosynthetic surfaces, more growth, thicker trunk.

Read Walter Pall's posts on the subject of hedge pruning. Do not go to the nattering nabobs of bonsai punditry that are parroting Walter Pall, and often mis-quoting him. His method is relatively simple. If it seems complicated, go back and read him again. Its not that complicated. Also search You Tube, I'm sure there are one or two Walter Pall videos in English talking about hedge pruning method.

Given the strongly linear, apical dominant growth pattern of a larch, for larch species allowing the tree to grow tall would be more likely in my mind than trying to "hedge prune" at larch. But I do not know, I have not worked with larch to any degree. My only larches I owned for 2 years, they were older trees bought from Valavanis, and then moved on to someone else.

Walter Pall Bonsai Adventures

Walter Pall's main blog about bonsai and his work with trees from day to day. Lots of good pictures of good trees and lots of valuable information about bonsai.

walter-pall-bonsai.blogspot.com

Japanese Maple # 14 - an update

walter-pall-bonsai.blogspot.com

Refurbishing a Japanese maple - the "hedge cutting method"

translated from German into English by Michael Eckardt , President Kitchener-Waterloo Bonsai Society Kitchener, Ontario, Canada Refurbis...

walterpallbonsaiarticles.blogspot.com

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Note - larch from seed, when you get them going, in the first few years, encourage low branches to form. You want branches along the trunk. One of the low branches will become your second segment of trunk, and then a branch on that branch will become your third segment of trunk. Since larch do not back bud on old wood, you need to get the back budding on the tree while less than 5 years old. Maybe 10 years old, but after 5 years, main trunk of larch does not form buds that easily. Irregular after 5 years.

That way you will have your tree, and the escape trunk. You train the escape trunk so it does not shade the main trunk. You keep the "keeper branches short, with tight well ramified growth, and you let the escape portion run wild.

 

[barguy8194]

Mike have you compared success rates for fall vs spring collecting? In the spring I can't seem to hit that narrow window between frozen and green branches. I tried a couple of test collections last fall and they seem to be doing fine this spring. Seems easier to find a day in the autumn after they turn yellow but before the ground freezes.

Brian

Nick Lenz has a chapter about Tamarack in his book Bonsai from the Wild. He actually advocates fall collection for this species over spring collection. He says if you can get them when the needles go “from green to chartreuse” it’s best, but otherwise just as the first needles start to yellow.
Apparently tamarack have a significant burst of root growth in the autumn as they go dormant.

 

[leatherback]

The more leaf surface area, the more rapidly the trunk will thicken.

Absolutely agree.

One thing to keep in mind: Movement and pressure on trunk and roots: I firmly believe in the theory that this adds to nebari development and girth. So a tall whip in the wind might still develop a better base than a wide low canopy with similar foliage area

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Nick Lenz has a chapter about Tamarack in his book Bonsai from the Wild. He actually advocates fall collection for this species over spring collection. He says if you can get them when the needles go “from green to chartreuse” it’s best, but otherwise just as the first needles start to yellow.
Apparently tamarack have a significant burst of root growth in the autumn as they go dormant.

I'm reporting that growth in my larches during spring. I found new roots growing from the base when I repotted mine a little too late. But mine are larix decidua, they might behave different.

 

[barguy8194]

I'm reporting that growth in my larches during spring. I found new roots growing from the base when I repotted mine a little too late. But mine are larix decidua, they might behave different.

Extrapolating from a variety of sources, it seems that spring collecting of Larix laricina probably does have a slight advantage over autumn collection in terms of surviving collection and general health, but only slight in comparison to the significant advantage for most other species. Lenz advocates early autumn collection because the terrain conditions tend to be more favorable to the collector in the fall; i.e., drier ground, a guarantee not to hit frost, etc.

 

[Tulsabonsigh]

Where’d ya get the sweet giant colander?