The Ultimate “Put Up or Shut Up” Challenge
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Sorry Will,
I am in the process of being with my siblings as we watch our Mother die. Her body has started shutting down and we are all with her in shifts.
For those intrested enough to send flowers she is at The Central Baptist Hospital "The Atrium" San Antonio, Texas. Her name is Beulah Irvin. Flowers from strangers or folks will be accepted by all of us.
Irene Britton
Can someone please copy and post this to the other bonsai sites for me, I am physically and emotionally exhausted....Thank You
I am in the process of being with my siblings as we watch our Mother die. Her body has started shutting down and we are all with her in shifts.
For those intrested enough to send flowers she is at The Central Baptist Hospital "The Atrium" San Antonio, Texas. Her name is Beulah Irvin. Flowers from strangers or folks will be accepted by all of us.
Irene Britton
Can someone please copy and post this to the other bonsai sites for me, I am physically and emotionally exhausted....Thank You
Anonymous User
Banned
Irene,
All our differences aside, our prayers are with you and your mother.
Take care, be strong, and know that you are in our thoughts.
Will
All our differences aside, our prayers are with you and your mother.
Take care, be strong, and know that you are in our thoughts.
Will
BUBBAFRGA
Mame
Sorry to hear this, I too have been though this with a father and mother-in Law. My prayers are with you and your family.
Vance Wood
Lord Mugo
Ditto, it is difficult when you are dealing with failing loved ones and words don't help. All we can do is make sure they don't add to the hurt. Be well and know this too shall pass though at the time it seem not to be so.
milehigh_7
Mister 500,000
Sad Sad Sad
This particular thread is sad on so many levels it would be difficult to name them all.
Will had an idea, no one else liked it. Shall we end this here?
Nothing good will come of continuing this discussion we all know that. It is clear that no one has any intention of participating so just stop already.
How about You all that don't like Will put him on ignore and Will put those who you perceive as antagonists on ignore.
This has almost become too much to take.
What would be even better would be to try and correct damage. If you are not going to participate in Will's challenge then delete your posts from this thread and simply walk away from it.
It won't kill you
This particular thread is sad on so many levels it would be difficult to name them all.
Will had an idea, no one else liked it. Shall we end this here?
Nothing good will come of continuing this discussion we all know that. It is clear that no one has any intention of participating so just stop already.
How about You all that don't like Will put him on ignore and Will put those who you perceive as antagonists on ignore.
This has almost become too much to take.
What would be even better would be to try and correct damage. If you are not going to participate in Will's challenge then delete your posts from this thread and simply walk away from it.
It won't kill you
Mojosan
Mame
I'm game Will - you buy the trees.
The Ultimate Bonsai Cage Match...
Will...you are so funny and predictable. As I have pointed out several times already your challenge, the way you set it up, will not resolve your main goal stated in your challenge....but you are not a big enough man to make a minor adjustment so that it will....one would have to reason then you are afraid. Oh..you talk big, "I am comfortable with...blah, blah, blah." But the bottom line is you are correct..this was your idea...look here is way I can guarantee I am a winner and help Bill at the same time...then Im sure you wondered if we were stupid enough to play long??? Are you surprised you've had no takers or was that your plan all along??? I think Flybri was correct on this one.
I also notice that you are not getting any play at all in Will's World either...hmmm????? Amazing how the only post on topic over there pointed out exactly the same thing I did??? Did you ban Shaukat, Will for stating "While I can understand your feelings for throwing this challenge but your tirade is more emotional and less reasonable."
I am not sure why I even bother pointing things out to you bc if they are not want you want to hear you just change the subject or choose to ignore them...you pretend to be something you are not my friend. It appears you are afraid everyone is going to find out what a few have called you on now for so long now. Last I checked ignoring arguments doesn't win you any points in the debate game
It is really even funnier when new folks come along and take your side. I always want to tell them to that they should go back into the archives and see that every thread you participate in turns into this. Oh yes, you are really good at playing the victim. But, eventually they figure it out and quit posting in support of you...I can't imagine why that would be...can you figure it out...the only one that has stuck by your side Vance
In every thread you bitch about the lack of moderation here...What would you propose Bnut do...ban everyone and let you have this board all to yourself? As much as this board struggles when you are not stirring things up I am sure he enjoys the traffic when you are. If you don't like the heat Will can I suggest you go play in Will's World...oh that won't work either will it bc you have moderators over there that do their jobs and you won't be able to play any games...poor Will
Will look, its really simple...if you want this to stop (which I really doubt you do...I think you get off on it) all you have to do modify your challenge a little bit. In fact, this could be right up your alley...this could turn into the biggest, greatest, most wonderful, Internet Bonsai Challenge ever...and just think Will it was ALL your idea!!!
I look forward to a chance to enter a challenge with you that is based on "Talent and Ability" but I am afraid you are not up to it even though you continue to blow hot air as usual.
One last caveat my friend, if you choose not to modify your challenge...please do go away like you said you were going to....Surely you don't want anybody to think you would go back on your word, or that you might lower yourself in the face a deserving cause????
Man up, Will...put your talent where your mouth is or take your cowardly self on down the road.
Your Sweetheart,
John
Still tossing mud, John?
Here's the deal, I put up a challenge, you ain't brave enough to take it. You want me to put up, I have offered to, the question is when are you going to stop whining and making excuses and put up yourself?
So, once agin...put up or shut up.
Oh yeah, Happy Valentine's Day, Sweetheart.
Will...you are so funny and predictable. As I have pointed out several times already your challenge, the way you set it up, will not resolve your main goal stated in your challenge....but you are not a big enough man to make a minor adjustment so that it will....one would have to reason then you are afraid. Oh..you talk big, "I am comfortable with...blah, blah, blah." But the bottom line is you are correct..this was your idea...look here is way I can guarantee I am a winner and help Bill at the same time...then Im sure you wondered if we were stupid enough to play long??? Are you surprised you've had no takers or was that your plan all along??? I think Flybri was correct on this one.
I also notice that you are not getting any play at all in Will's World either...hmmm????? Amazing how the only post on topic over there pointed out exactly the same thing I did??? Did you ban Shaukat, Will for stating "While I can understand your feelings for throwing this challenge but your tirade is more emotional and less reasonable."
I am not sure why I even bother pointing things out to you bc if they are not want you want to hear you just change the subject or choose to ignore them...you pretend to be something you are not my friend. It appears you are afraid everyone is going to find out what a few have called you on now for so long now. Last I checked ignoring arguments doesn't win you any points in the debate game
It is really even funnier when new folks come along and take your side. I always want to tell them to that they should go back into the archives and see that every thread you participate in turns into this. Oh yes, you are really good at playing the victim. But, eventually they figure it out and quit posting in support of you...I can't imagine why that would be...can you figure it out...the only one that has stuck by your side Vance
In every thread you bitch about the lack of moderation here...What would you propose Bnut do...ban everyone and let you have this board all to yourself? As much as this board struggles when you are not stirring things up I am sure he enjoys the traffic when you are. If you don't like the heat Will can I suggest you go play in Will's World...oh that won't work either will it bc you have moderators over there that do their jobs and you won't be able to play any games...poor Will
Will look, its really simple...if you want this to stop (which I really doubt you do...I think you get off on it
) all you have to do modify your challenge a little bit. In fact, this could be right up your alley...this could turn into the biggest, greatest, most wonderful, Internet Bonsai Challenge ever...and just think Will it was ALL your idea!!!I look forward to a chance to enter a challenge with you that is based on "Talent and Ability" but I am afraid you are not up to it even though you continue to blow hot air as usual.
One last caveat my friend, if you choose not to modify your challenge...please do go away like you said you were going to....Surely you don't want anybody to think you would go back on your word, or that you might lower yourself in the face a deserving cause????
Man up, Will...put your talent where your mouth is or take your cowardly self on down the road.
Your Sweetheart,
John
Anonymous User
Banned
John, are you blind as well as daft? There have been takers posting openly and a couple that Pm'ed me, sadly none of the big mouths who have the most to lose.
You're wrong, what I did do was to finally take out my glove and slap all you loud mouth, know nothing glitterati, across the face, not once but many times in this challenge. I also set it up so that besides proving once again that you guys are full of crap, something good comes of it....history shows that you glitterati have a very short memory span, hence the constant demands to see bonsai after they have been shown time and time again. Maybe putting your money where your mouth is will help your memory the next time.
There have been people interested in taking the challenge, as I said. Your Orwellian denials are beneath you.
Ban Shaukat? What the hell for? His opinion is welcome, please notice how two people can disagree respectfully? You should try it sometime. This may be above your capibility to understand, but people can actually disagree without insulting each other and other such ignorance.
While he may have said the same thing, he said it without insults, name calling, and whining.
Pretend? Nope, sorry I am exactly what I have always said, a person with less than 5 years in bonsai who has contributed quite a bit to the community, a published author in three languages, and paid instructor. I have created the best on-line contests for bonsai ever that have set the standard for such contests, and I have helped bring together the most comprehensive collection of galleries and interviews on the web, as well as artistic articles, etc etc etc.
Yes, you keep questioning my contributions and I'll keep listing them.
I tell them the same thing, they should go back and look because they will see every thread turns to flames exactly like this one did. Someone like yourself, comes in a starts trowing crap and then I respond to them. What pisses you off is that someone will stand up to your bull-crap and call it like it is, or that someone may be infringing on your self perceived claim of being the "Beginner Forum Internet King." LMAO!
Your warped attempt to place the world's problems on me is lame and easily countered with the fact that I also post at IBC, IBF, Bsite, CB, AoB, KoB, TB, and other bonsai forums and none of this crap happens on any of them. Why? Because ignorant inciting crap like yours is not allowed on any of them. Do you really think the readers are so stupid as not to recognize this? Look at your own posts here John and answer the question as to who incites and who simple responds in defense? This may be hard for you to understand, I know it is for those I called by name in my challenge, intelligent discussion can be had without name calling and hissy fits.
Here's a fact for you to consider, the internet bonsai community is a very, very small percentage of the bonsai community....so small that it is actually pretty unremarkable when compared to the average subscription base of any magazine. Most members of most clubs never go on-line, most experienced artists do not participate, and those that do so usually do so for commercial reasons. So, your crap reaches the minority and is basically meaningless in the big picture. I have been hearing the same crap from the same people for almost five years, do you think it has affected me at all? Bring it on, it does no harm at all, it hasn't stopped me and it certainly hasn't slowed me down any. On the contrary, it motivates me, so if you think you are gaining something with your lies and denials, you are once again, sadly mistaken.
Another lie. I may have mentioned this twice, but it is brought up the most by others such as Brent.
Oh...let's see....just what every other bonsai forum does, stop name calling, insults, flame starting and guide the discussion to the actual subject matter. This forum has the reputation of a fight forum, because such stupidity is allowed. Your own stupidity for example, if you don't have the balls to take the challenge, then shut up, stop whining and crying....stop making excuses and trying to turn this into anything but the truth, which is you are not taking the challenge.
I already created the best contests on-line already, thank you. The one that would be best suited for our purposes is the KoB Progressive Styling Contest, I'll be in it this year, so all you "internet gurus" that are back peddling away from this challenge and making excuses, can have at it there, but I'm not holding my breath, those I called out by name in this challenge very seldom ever will expose themselves to public scrutiny.Will look, its really simple...if you want this to stop (which I really doubt you do...I think you get off on it
I look forward to a chance to enter a challenge with you that is based on "Talent and Ability" but I am afraid you are not up to it even though you continue to blow hot air as usual.
The KoB contest is all based on talent and ability, it is judged by three world renowned judges, and is open to all. All the big mouths can go against me in the raw stock category.
The sad part is that nothing will go to the good cause by waiting for the KoB contest, but, if that is what it takes, so be it, I'll be in it anyhow, with or without the big mouths.
And the lies and twisting of truths keep on coming....no one said anything about going away, what the challenge was is for loud mouth fools to either put up or shut up, making excuses just doesn't cut it John. Take the challenge or shut up, your excuses make you look like a cry baby.
I think you are still holding a gudge John, http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1421
Quoting from the first post once again...
"I can hear them already, so don’t waste your time giving us excuses that won’t cut it. Here’s your chance to prove your own words or to run, lest you be exposed. Don’t waste our time telling us about the labor pains, show us the baby!"
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Since I am on Ignore I doubt this will get answered but, I see with your recent "paid instructor" status you will be in the "Professional Catagory" with the likes of other proffesionals? Myself, you will find me in the non professional category. Wish I would have entered the last one in the collected material catagory........
Anonymous User
Banned
Your assumption that you are on the ignore list is flawed, choosing to ignore a comment is not the same as ignoring all comments.
I have entered many contests and always as a professional, because according to the rules, if you have ever been paid to do a demo, class, or workshop, you are a professional. Considering that I have done demos and workshops at the last three All State Shows, for private clubs and organizations, and that I teach intro to bonsai classes at a community college, I enter as a professional.
We did away with the professional / non-professional categories at AoB last year. However, we will most likely keep them at KoB.
Oh, by the way, the professional status applies to those who sell bonsai as well, Jason. We will find you and I in the professional category. Looks like we will be competing against each other afterall.
Will
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Boondock
Shohin
I think johng is 100% correct.
My personal history is reflective of his entire post. A year or more ago I stopped posting here because of Will Heath's attitude and arrogance which I think are driven by some sort of Superiority Complex or some other major Personality Disorder.
He is personally responsible for driving many people away from bonsai. I am not an expert, or highly skilled, or possess great talent.... but I am interested in bonsai and my trees are my trees. I enjoy reading about bonsai and I continue to visit the forums without participating.
A couple of years ago a very wise man said to me (in the BT chatroom) that "Will Heath has done so much damage to the internet bonsai community that the effects of his presence will take decades to be repaired" He said this because while he was actively posting on BT, he succeeded in pissing so many people off they completely stopped posting on all bonsai forums. Many of these people were true experts in the field, who shared so much with the community. Their tutelage is now absent, and let's face it.... it takes longer that 5 years for the world to make "an expert"
Many times people make reference to Will's "resume". I think he is motivated by nothing else. His broken-record approach to continually recite his accomplishments over and over is nothing new. Yes, he has made some great leaps in the world of "intellectual" bonsai-- Nothing he's done at this point, in the bonsai community will last very long. The "resume" is nothing more that a way to say "hey, look at me, look at all the things I've done". Back when Will Heath had a MySpace page, his profile was completely FILLED with all the things he'd done, but that was back when he was able to have a myspace page. He never misses a chance to throw links to his all grand works. I am reminded of Shelly's poem "Ozymandias".......
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains: round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.
but I changed a few things
"My name is Will Heath,, the bonsai king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!" here's a link to AOB
Nothing beside remains: round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
of internet bonsai forums left crippled and destroyed
Many people here may remember I wrote a historically accurate yet highly satirical story that documented one event involving Mr Heath. I posted it on a blog and I believe that is why Mr Heath and Mr Wood have a hatred for me.
Yes, Will Heath has been banned from 3 internet bonsai forums, and yes he does occasionally post on several other forums, but no other forum will allow him to carry-on like he does on this forum. He remains on his very best behavior on IBC, BS and others. Only here at bNUT does he continue his mass destruction tirades. I used to hope that the moderator would see his negative influence and ban him from here too, but I've changed that opinion.... I now hope that this forum stays active for years and all the examples of his attitude are etched in stone for future generations. Not like the forum bonsaichat, where, after banning him, they not only removed every single reference to his name but changed the search engine on the forum to not even accept his name, all you would see is asterisks like this *** **** if you typed in Will Heath. BonsiaChat never recovered after he was exiled.
So.... Please Mr Heath, please continue doing what you do, please continue getting under everybody's skin, please continue to flame, insult, and offend. Please piss people off and cite your own accomplishments. Please continue your drama in this world of little trees. I for one have learned that its best to sit back and giggle a little. I hope you are always here.
Even if there are a dozen people standing out front of this forum carrying this sign
I am not one of them. I hope you stay true
My personal history is reflective of his entire post. A year or more ago I stopped posting here because of Will Heath's attitude and arrogance which I think are driven by some sort of Superiority Complex or some other major Personality Disorder.
He is personally responsible for driving many people away from bonsai. I am not an expert, or highly skilled, or possess great talent.... but I am interested in bonsai and my trees are my trees. I enjoy reading about bonsai and I continue to visit the forums without participating.
A couple of years ago a very wise man said to me (in the BT chatroom) that "Will Heath has done so much damage to the internet bonsai community that the effects of his presence will take decades to be repaired" He said this because while he was actively posting on BT, he succeeded in pissing so many people off they completely stopped posting on all bonsai forums. Many of these people were true experts in the field, who shared so much with the community. Their tutelage is now absent, and let's face it.... it takes longer that 5 years for the world to make "an expert"
Many times people make reference to Will's "resume". I think he is motivated by nothing else. His broken-record approach to continually recite his accomplishments over and over is nothing new. Yes, he has made some great leaps in the world of "intellectual" bonsai-- Nothing he's done at this point, in the bonsai community will last very long. The "resume" is nothing more that a way to say "hey, look at me, look at all the things I've done". Back when Will Heath had a MySpace page, his profile was completely FILLED with all the things he'd done, but that was back when he was able to have a myspace page. He never misses a chance to throw links to his all grand works. I am reminded of Shelly's poem "Ozymandias".......
"My name is Ozymandias, king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!"
Nothing beside remains: round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
The lone and level sands stretch far away.
but I changed a few things
"My name is Will Heath,, the bonsai king of kings:
Look on my works, ye Mighty, and despair!" here's a link to AOB
Nothing beside remains: round the decay
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
of internet bonsai forums left crippled and destroyed
Many people here may remember I wrote a historically accurate yet highly satirical story that documented one event involving Mr Heath. I posted it on a blog and I believe that is why Mr Heath and Mr Wood have a hatred for me.
Yes, Will Heath has been banned from 3 internet bonsai forums, and yes he does occasionally post on several other forums, but no other forum will allow him to carry-on like he does on this forum. He remains on his very best behavior on IBC, BS and others. Only here at bNUT does he continue his mass destruction tirades. I used to hope that the moderator would see his negative influence and ban him from here too, but I've changed that opinion.... I now hope that this forum stays active for years and all the examples of his attitude are etched in stone for future generations. Not like the forum bonsaichat, where, after banning him, they not only removed every single reference to his name but changed the search engine on the forum to not even accept his name, all you would see is asterisks like this *** **** if you typed in Will Heath. BonsiaChat never recovered after he was exiled.
So.... Please Mr Heath, please continue doing what you do, please continue getting under everybody's skin, please continue to flame, insult, and offend. Please piss people off and cite your own accomplishments. Please continue your drama in this world of little trees. I for one have learned that its best to sit back and giggle a little. I hope you are always here.
Even if there are a dozen people standing out front of this forum carrying this sign
I am not one of them. I hope you stay true
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Anonymous User
Banned
Yawn,
Yet another off topic, meaningless Will bash from Boondock, who's own history is reflected here, jumping in and trying to incite another fight with his personal, extremely biased opinions. I won't bother to respond to all this mindless drivel, but I will address a few attempts to rewrite history.
That is the simple truth.
And you're right, after this banning "BonsiaChat never recovered."
Here's a quote for you that will piss you off....
"BonsaiChat is appropriately named, it is mostly by and for chat persons. Sometimes I call it the birthday forum since it seems that most of the energy goes into congratulating members on having survived another year. The only time this group put out some good serious work was when Will was stirring the pot."
Care to take a guess as to who said this?
Of that, you can be sure.
Will
Yet another off topic, meaningless Will bash from Boondock, who's own history is reflected here, jumping in and trying to incite another fight with his personal, extremely biased opinions. I won't bother to respond to all this mindless drivel, but I will address a few attempts to rewrite history.
I was banned from gardenweb and sent to Disney land for promoting a contest I was managing at BT. I was quickly reinstated. I was banned from BT ( a badge of honor) and from bchat (not missing it).
These lies won';t fly boonie, the fact is the incites, name calling, insults, baiting posts I RESPOND to here are not allowed on other forums, hence no fuel....no fire. Only here can you get away with such crap....this is easy to prove, go on, post your post above on any other forum, try IBC, IBF, BSite, anyhwere....the fact is, you'd be warned and then banned if you continued.
That is the simple truth.
More lies. The truth is that after they banned me and a half dozen experienced members, I sent them a email asking that all my posts, articles, and contributions be removed from the site. This letter is commonly called a cease and desist. They complied. I contributed a lot there and I certainly wasn't going to let them benefit from it after their mass ban.
And you're right, after this banning "BonsiaChat never recovered."
Here's a quote for you that will piss you off....
"BonsaiChat is appropriately named, it is mostly by and for chat persons. Sometimes I call it the birthday forum since it seems that most of the energy goes into congratulating members on having survived another year. The only time this group put out some good serious work was when Will was stirring the pot."
Care to take a guess as to who said this?
Of that, you can be sure.
Will
Boondock
Shohin
Too much rain may blight the garden with mold
Too much Heath may cause the Forum to fold
The WH plague is now in full effect, feeding on itself, as it carves through commentary with no sense of humanity posturing itself on empty boasting and self gratification. Not even "the schmuck" can save us now.
Too much Heath may cause the Forum to fold
The WH plague is now in full effect, feeding on itself, as it carves through commentary with no sense of humanity posturing itself on empty boasting and self gratification. Not even "the schmuck" can save us now.
Oh, by the way, the professional status applies to those who sell bonsai as well, Jason. We will find you and I in the professional category. Looks like we will be competing against each other afterall.
Will
Since I don't own Oregon bonsai, and don't get paid to sell trees for Randy then I guess I am not a true pro... just a guy who works for trees. There has never been a montary exchange, and I pay for the monthly OB.com hosting expense...
People contact me for trees and I send picutres and mail them out.
But one thing that doesnt make sense, if I sell a personal tree off my bench how does that make me a professional? That is not the true measure of a professional, if I sell my car to a friend does that make me an auto dealer? Just curious.
Jason
Anonymous User
Banned
Jason,
The same rules have been into effect for years at AoB and at KoB. We define a professional as follows:
The two main categories are professional and non-professional. If you have ever been paid for a demonstration, workshop, or a class, then you are a professional. If you have never been paid for a demonstration, workshop, or class, you are a non-professional. For the sake of clarity, if you own and/or operate a bonsai business or nursery, you are a professional.
In your case, your posts in the past have made it perfectly clear that you collect and sell trees, you have even said how you have sold trees to some of the big names in bonsai. This is a business.
Certainly someone with your talents wouldn't want to take unfair advantage of the non-professionals, would you?
Step up Jason and go head to head with me.
Now, instead of discussing the KoB contest here, can we get back to the subject? You can post any complaints you have at KoB and the editorial staff will consider them.
Will
The same rules have been into effect for years at AoB and at KoB. We define a professional as follows:
The two main categories are professional and non-professional. If you have ever been paid for a demonstration, workshop, or a class, then you are a professional. If you have never been paid for a demonstration, workshop, or class, you are a non-professional. For the sake of clarity, if you own and/or operate a bonsai business or nursery, you are a professional.
In your case, your posts in the past have made it perfectly clear that you collect and sell trees, you have even said how you have sold trees to some of the big names in bonsai. This is a business.
Certainly someone with your talents wouldn't want to take unfair advantage of the non-professionals, would you?
Step up Jason and go head to head with me.
Now, instead of discussing the KoB contest here, can we get back to the subject? You can post any complaints you have at KoB and the editorial staff will consider them.
Will
mapleman77
Mame
SO...How's the competition going everyone????
David
David
- Status
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