Tipping point cont'd

Rick Moquin

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Well I have reached my limit and I am tired. I may not have been the one who has contributed the most, but one will never know Will they. Until I find a niche where one can grow without all the condescending bickering, or who as the last word... So long! It is indeed unfortunate that a few make or brake a site.

Respectfully,

Rick,

http://www.bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?t=319

PS: If I need advice I'll seek it from the experts personally. It may take longer, but one will not have to decipher the BS.
 
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Boondock

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Your message is received.

I'm sorry to see you leave.

Please feel free to return and participate when the time is right.
 

zelk

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subtle yet clear
sorry to see you go

:( :( :( :(
 
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Rick, I feel your pain. I will just tell you that I have a new attitude and am trying to make a difference. I hope you will join in.
 

irene_b

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Rick,
In order to improve a site sometimes it takes a very willing spirit to look beyond some of the shyt.
But I believe we can all improve.
I am willing to do all I can, please join with me!
Mom
 

irene_b

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Rick, I feel your pain. I will just tell you that I have a new attitude and am trying to make a difference. I hope you will join in.

We all suffer when a member walks away.

Thank You Chris for being willing to go forward and make a difference here at Bnut!
Mom
 

Attila Soos

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During these years, I've realized that being into bonsai and being into bonsai forums, are two very different hobbies.

The first one (bonsai) is relaxing, creative, peaceful, and introvert.
The second one (bonsai forum) is just like being in the corporate rat-race: high pressure, competitive, stressful, violent, dog-eat-dog world, often leading to burn-out.

When someone joins a bonsai forum beause he likes bonsai, that's the worst reason possible. He will soon realize that there is a jungle out there, where only the fittest survive. Being on a bonsai forum is worse than working: you have to take all the abuse, but without getting paid.
On the other hand, if one enjoys wrestling, he is more likely to survive the forum experience.

One couldn't imagine two hobbies, so different.
 

irene_b

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During these years, I've realized that being into bonsai and being into bonsai forums, are two very different hobbies.

The first one (bonsai) is relaxing, creative, peaceful, and introvert.
The second one (bonsai forum) is just like being in the corporate rat-race: high pressure, competitive, stressful, violent, dog-eat-dog world, often leading to burn-out.

When someone joins a bonsai forum beause he likes bonsai, that's the worst reason possible. He will soon realize that there is a jungle out there, where only the fittest survive. Being on a bonsai forum is worse than working: you have to take all the abuse, but without getting paid.
On the other hand, if one enjoys wrestling, he is more likely to survive the forum experience.

One couldn't imagine two hobbies, so different.





And why is this?
The one and only reason I am here is to share.
I am not into the competition aspect of Bonsai, nor will I ever be.
I do not have envy for someone else's tree.
I am happy to share learning with others.
I am happy when seeing what everybody else is doing in Bonsai as well.
Bonsai till just recently has been a hermit type activity that I had no one to share with.

Perhaps, what is needed is the willing spirit to make a change here at Bnut and make it what it should be. If each of us makes the effort to have the spirit, Bnut can be a wonderful place to enjoy Bonsai with each other.
Mom
 
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Well said Attila.



I think too many people on-line worry way too much about what other people on-line are doing. For many the bonsai forum is a social thing and not an educational or inspirational thing at all and as with most social activities politics, clicks, ladder climbing, and so on always seem to creep in. Many people are more worried about debating the person than debating the subject which leads to personal attacks, hard feelings, and thus generally leading to poor content for others to view.

God help the person who thinks he can contribute to the community, unless you have already fought through all the crap, you will have to. (Some of the best artists now tell stories of being crucified at first) The prevalent attitude on most forums is to tear people down and not build them up. Which brings up the crabs in a bucket story again,for those who haven't read it it tells about how, when a person is collocting crabs, that a single crab placed in a bucket will quickly crawl out, but if there are other crabs in the bucket they will not allow one to crawl out and will pull any who dare to try back down into the bucket.

And lastly, many forum people love the crap.

What? It can't be so?

Look at the threads with the most number of replies or views here....which threads are they? Interesting, isn't it?

The facts are very hard to argue against and point to the social forum mentioned above where people love to see debates and attacks, like a car crash......or a fire....

So you don't like a person, so what, you don't have to live with them, you don't even have to read what they have to say. The ignore feature here works wonders, I use it myself to block those who I personally feel have nothing valid to contribute or who seem more concerned with starting fights than bonsai...I love that feature!

Besides, quitting never has accomplished anything, except start yet another car crash thread.....but then again, people do love those, don't they?




My opinions, my words, my thoughts,



Will
 
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You’ll forgive me Will if I use you as an example, but you have thicker skin than a rhino so I know you can handle it. 

It is not possible to read what you want and not read the rest. Myself, I love to read your input on peoples trees and your ideas about bonsai, but could very well do without all of the bickering and pissing contests. Now, as you say, a lot of people flock to read the shouting matches. But most of those fights start in threads that were in the beginning about some aspect of bonsai and they get hi-jacked by battling egos. I, myself, want to read what you have to say about people’s work but could do without reading the personality clashes. If I use the ignore feature I get nothing. So, take this a compliment, I’m forced to dig through all the dirt to find the gems.
 

irene_b

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Well said Attila.
I think too many people on-line worry way too much about what other people on-line are doing. For many the bonsai forum is a social thing and not an educational or inspirational thing at all and as with most social activities politics, clicks, ladder climbing, and so on always seem to creep in. Many people are more worried about debating the person than debating the subject which leads to personal attacks, hard feelings, and thus generally leading to poor content for others to view.

God help the person who thinks he can contribute to the community, unless you have already fought through all the crap, you will have to. (Some of the best artists now tell stories of being crucified at first) The prevalent attitude on most forums is to tear people down and not build them up. Which brings up the crabs in a bucket story again,for those who haven't read it it tells about how, when a person is collocting crabs, that a single crab placed in a bucket will quickly crawl out, but if there are other crabs in the bucket they will not allow one to crawl out and will pull any who dare to try back down into the bucket.

And lastly, many forum people love the crap.

What? It can't be so?

Look at the threads with the most number of replies or views here....which threads are they? Interesting, isn't it?

The facts are very hard to argue against and point to the social forum mentioned above where people love to see debates and attacks, like a car crash......or a fire....

So you don't like a person, so what, you don't have to live with them, you don't even have to read what they have to say. The ignore feature here works wonders, I use it myself to block those who I personally feel have nothing valid to contribute or who seem more concerned with starting fights than bonsai...I love that feature!

Besides, quitting never has accomplished anything, except start yet another car crash thread.....but then again, people do love those, don't they?
My opinions, my words, my thoughts,
Will














What you say is true Will, to a point.
But in order for change to happen you have to have a willing spirit. Don't depend on someone else to change if you are not willing to as well.
Change happens one step at a time and one person at a time.
The Bonsai World is a very small world of many people from all over the world.
I choose to believe that each person is capable of helping to change our small world into a more cohesive bonded community that helps each other instead of bashing each others.
Mom
 
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I choose to believe that each person is capable of helping to change our small world into a more cohesive bonded community that helps each other instead of bashing each others.

As do I.

Every day I personally make it a point to add to the community something that wasn't there before. That being said, I never have been very good at turning the other cheek, but I have become very good at ignoring the crap that does happen and the people who start such.


You’ll forgive me Will if I use you as an example, but you have thicker skin than a rhino so I know you can handle it.

Thanks for the laugh!


It is not possible to read what you want and not read the rest. Myself, I love to read your input on peoples trees and your ideas about bonsai, but could very well do without all of the bickering and pissing contests. Now, as you say, a lot of people flock to read the shouting matches. But most of those fights start in threads that were in the beginning about some aspect of bonsai and they get hi-jacked by battling egos. I, myself, want to read what you have to say about people’s work but could do without reading the personality clashes. If I use the ignore feature I get nothing. So, take this a compliment, I’m forced to dig through all the dirt to find the gems.

Yes, I understand. You do have to admit though that since I started using the ignore feature, the bickering has stopped altogether. Certainly I might miss a gem or two ignoring some people's words, but to me the trade off was a bargin....I get to enjoy the forum without having to see every word I type disected, aynalized, misinterpeted, taken out of context, and used as a excuse to attack me personally. Not that it was really any more bothersome than having flies buzz around when you're trying to eat, just really annoying at times....so I closed the screens, the air and sun still gets through, but the flies are blocked....so the meal can be had without pests.

Although the point I was making by bringing this up was that ignoring a few people is a better option than quitting the whole forum, as was done here by the thread starter. There are better options.

Thanks for the kind words, I really appreciate them.



Will
 
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irene_b

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As do I.

Every day I personally make it a point to add to the community something that wasn't there before. That being said, I never have been very good at turning the other cheek, but I have become very good at ignoring the crap that does happen and the people who start such.







Got to let it go in order to grow Will.
Anger at people has a way of eating your spirit up.
You can control what you say and do.
Each time you react and respond it feeds the beast more.
Mom
 

Graydon

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And why is this?
The one and only reason I am here is to share.
I am not into the competition aspect of Bonsai, nor will I ever be.
I do not have envy for someone else's tree.
I am happy to share learning with others.
I am happy when seeing what everybody else is doing in Bonsai as well.
Bonsai till just recently has been a hermit type activity that I had no one to share with.

Perhaps, what is needed is the willing spirit to make a change here at Bnut and make it what it should be. If each of us makes the effort to have the spirit, Bnut can be a wonderful place to enjoy Bonsai with each other.
Mom

It's called individuality. We all have it and should respect other peoples take on it...

For the record I have much envy of other people's trees. That envy is part of the fuel of the fire that drives me to get better.

No change is needed. It's not broken nor does it need fixing. BNut is a great place but just like other "places" where there are people that you may not agree with, or like, or would even be in the same room with but you still go there. It's a big world out there and not everyone gets along. That's OK with me. But to force people to get along... yeah. That will never work. To ask people to change... yeah, again not going to work. People change when they want to do so.
 

Rick Moquin

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Rick, I feel your pain. I will just tell you that I have a new attitude and am trying to make a difference. I hope you will join in.
Way to go Chris! Kudos to you. Unfortunately, I don't feel I'm capable of personally making it a point to add to the community. Therefore I'll abstain from participating.
 

Behr

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Unfortunately, I don't feel I'm capable of personally making it a point to add to the community. Therefore I'll abstain from participating.

Mr. Rick,

I must respectively disagree with this comment, at least from my own perspective...Even though we don't agree sometimes, I do respect and read with much appreciation the things you add to the discussions in this forum, therefore you do add to the community when you participate...I do believe I understand some of the difficulties you experienced which resulted in you starting this thread, and I agree fully, but to deprive the community of your input, questions, and thoughts does sadden me...I for one hope things will change in your decision to the point of you once again participating with your experience...

Regards
Behr

:) :) :)

P.S. This post will also get rid of that useless, nagging, heading at the top of the page which states..."Hello Behr it appears that you have not posted on our forums in several weeks, why not take a few moments to ask a question, help provide a solution or just engage in a conversation with another member in any one of our forums?"
 

Vance Wood

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Way to go Chris! Kudos to you. Unfortunately, I don't feel I'm capable of personally making it a point to add to the community. Therefore I'll abstain from participating.

I must have missed something around here of late Rick, I don't know of any crab olympicis lately why do you do this now? Unless it has been something in the Karaoke Bar, which I seldom frequent, I don't know where you have been getting hammered.
 
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Vance Wood

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Well said Attila.
I think too many people on-line worry way too much about what other people on-line are doing. For many the bonsai forum is a social thing and not an educational or inspirational thing at all and as with most social activities politics, clicks, ladder climbing, and so on always seem to creep in. Many people are more worried about debating the person than debating the subject which leads to personal attacks, hard feelings, and thus generally leading to poor content for others to view.

God help the person who thinks he can contribute to the community, unless you have already fought through all the crap, you will have to. (Some of the best artists now tell stories of being crucified at first) The prevalent attitude on most forums is to tear people down and not build them up. Which brings up the crabs in a bucket story again,for those who haven't read it it tells about how, when a person is collocting crabs, that a single crab placed in a bucket will quickly crawl out, but if there are other crabs in the bucket they will not allow one to crawl out and will pull any who dare to try back down into the bucket.

And lastly, many forum people love the crap.

What? It can't be so?

Look at the threads with the most number of replies or views here....which threads are they? Interesting, isn't it?

The facts are very hard to argue against and point to the social forum mentioned above where people love to see debates and attacks, like a car crash......or a fire....

So you don't like a person, so what, you don't have to live with them, you don't even have to read what they have to say. The ignore feature here works wonders, I use it myself to block those who I personally feel have nothing valid to contribute or who seem more concerned with starting fights than bonsai...I love that feature!

Besides, quitting never has accomplished anything, except start yet another car crash thread.....but then again, people do love those, don't they?
My opinions, my words, my thoughts,
Will














What you say is true Will, to a point.
But in order for change to happen you have to have a willing spirit. Don't depend on someone else to change if you are not willing to as well.
Change happens one step at a time and one person at a time.
The Bonsai World is a very small world of many people from all over the world.
I choose to believe that each person is capable of helping to change our small world into a more cohesive bonded community that helps each other instead of bashing each others.
Mom

Irene, I appreciate you trying to make peace, but sometimes you just have to throw a pie, better performed with a moving target.
 

irene_b

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LOL Vance!
Cream Pie?
It is just my nature to try and smooth things over.
It is fine to disagree, and it is fine to not like everyone.
But what is not fine nor good is for the forum to get drug thru the gutter!
We all have to be willing to let go of the past in order to step into the future.
Because like it or not we are setting the foundation for the next generation of Bonsaiist.
Which would you prefer the angry one or the gentle one?
Mom
 

Ashbarns

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It might be a good time to take stock of ourselves right here.

If a child of nine were to read this thread he/she might think they were back in the schoolyard.
The back and forth point scoring not to lose face is not productive and not why we are here.

Think about it, many of us have not even met each other so this all becomes conjecture. A figment of our imagination.

As supposedly mature adults addicted to bonsai it may now be time to actually address the subject rather than the individual personalities. (as Will Heath has repeatedly said) Most have been guilty of this.

I propose we make a pledge.............

That we show respect to each other and keep within the subject matter.
If we have differences of opinion we should agree to disagree (end of subject)


I think that may cover what our objectives should be but if anyone else wishes to add more points feel free.


Oh! and Rick, please stay.

Ash :):):)
 

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