Watering BS

[GrimLore]

"Moist but not wet."
-sure! I will remove each individual soil particle and mist it to perfection and return it to the pot!
-I will water, then break out the blow dryer and blow the wet out!

Easy and inexpensive to accomplish and also requires less frequent watering, I use this on a lot of plants with "healthy" results -

50% Course Silica sand and 50% Premium Topsoil(fine black compost) and a handful or two of Horticultural Perlite. Water drains though it very nicely but it stays damp to the touch.

I modify it by adding Canadian Sphagnum Peat(fine) for acid lovers like Azalea.

Grimmy

 

[Quince]

Easy and inexpensive to accomplish and also requires less frequent watering, I use this on a lot of plants with "healthy" results -

50% Course Silica sand and 50% Premium Topsoil(fine black compost) and a handful or two of Horticultural Perlite. Water drains though it very nicely but it stays damp to the touch.

I modify it by adding Canadian Sphagnum Peat(fine) for acid lovers like Azalea.

Grimmy

Hmmm...
That doesn't sound very modern to me.

 

[GrimLore]

Hmmm... That doesn't sound very modern to me.

In late 2015 when I decided I would start over I decided to go with older organic methods. At this point every plant I have is in it of a variation of it to suit a plant. Funny thing is that when we had no power for a few hours I picked an old publication by Peter D. Adams for some propagation information and noticed his suggestion for growing substrate is extremely similar with what I use for several species - wish I read that 2 years ago

Grimmy

 

[sorce]

Easy and inexpensive to accomplish and also requires less frequent watering, I use this on a lot of plants with "healthy" results -

50% Course Silica sand and 50% Premium Topsoil(fine black compost) and a handful or two of Horticultural Perlite. Water drains though it very nicely but it stays damp to the touch.

I modify it by adding Canadian Sphagnum Peat(fine) for acid lovers like Azalea.

Grimmy

This is what I'm looking for!

We cant water an unknown to "moist but not wet...

We can mix a PROPER soil to it!

Knowledge plus control!

Sorce

 

[GrimLore]

Knowledge plus control!

Took me 2 years to figure out what works with what and I could have just read that book two years ago! It was an interesting two years though but I know what works!

Grimmy

 

[drew33998]

I only use the automated system when I'm away, maybe 3 weeks out of the year at most. I like to hand water, though it makes my typical morning a bit frantic at times. Also, I tend to water everything- stuff in turface/pumice, turface/bark, akadama/lava/pumice, soil conditioner, etc.,- once a day, unless I the soil is staying wet AND I think it's causing a problem. Easy peasy...

You said Turface!!!

 

[A. Gorilla]

You said Turface!!!

Get him!

 

[Adair M]

Geez...

You guys make this WAY too hard!

A straight inorganic mix will drain very quickly. No standing water. If you do get standing water in an inorganic mix, it’s time to repot.

Use organic fertilizer with your inorganic soil mix. Many put the fertilizer cakes, or just the ground up fertilizer in tea bags (or wedding rice bags), and lay them on the surface of the soil. The advantage to using a bag is the bag keeps the fines out of the soil.

So, with inorganic soil, you can water as much as you want without worry.

 

[Anthony]

Sifu [ @Adair M ]

when you say inorganic mix and organic fertiliser ---------- is the plant a refined
or "finished" Bonsai ?
Good Day
Anthony

 

[drew33998]

Geez...

You guys make this WAY too hard!

A straight inorganic mix will drain very quickly. No standing water. If you do get standing water in an inorganic mix, it’s time to repot.

Use organic fertilizer with your inorganic soil mix. Many put the fertilizer cakes, or just the ground up fertilizer in tea bags (or wedding rice bags), and lay them on the surface of the soil. The advantage to using a bag is the bag keeps the fines out of the soil.

So, with inorganic soil, you can water as much as you want without worry.

Seriously though I found a source for turface branded under a different name. Same source sells lava rock in 50lb bag for cheap. And pumice I found a source for a reasonable price for 18lbs shipped in a flat rate box.

It's hard to get away from oil dry for my growing stock since it is so cheap. My junipers dont seem to mind growing in it in deeper grow pots. Bonsai pots i think it is way too wet by itself.

Some junipers are going on 5 years straight oil dry in grow pots. I will say it holds a TON of water so you have to really know when you should water. I wouldn't recommend it on a tree that you would be scared of having it dry out too much. Junipers im not too worried about being on the dry side.

Tried zeolite straight on a japanese maple. Not great results. It is in a nice rounded particle but it's ph is generally basic and given my high calcium content water that makes for a bad combination. It is reading around 8 in ph if the soil meter is correct. Not much i have done has been able to correct this. I would recommend it as an addition to and not a base for a soil.

Growstone is way too sharp and particle too large. At least the stuff I tried was. Used in conjunction with lava and bark chips. Way too fast draining. Holds no water.

Akadama is great with pumice and lava but it's a bit expensive. I am on the fence about the turface or akadama. I have a ton of roots this year so i really need the best bang for my buck.

 

[Joe Dupre']

If your soil is free-draining enough, I wouldn't think it would make too much difference if you watered every day or 4 times a day..... the same amount of moisture would be in the soil available for the tree to take up. Any excess water would drain out of the pot. Example : fill a colander full of 5 mm stones........pour 1 gallon of water over them.......or two gallons ....or 10 gallons. The stones will not get any wetter once the free water drains off.

 

[Adair M]

Sifu [ @Adair M ]

when you say inorganic mix and organic fertiliser ---------- is the plant a refined
or "finished" Bonsai ?
Good Day
Anthony

I would say that Mix is used for anything that goes into a container. With the possible exception of newly collected conifers, where they go into straight pumice for a couple years to recover from the collection process. Then, they get transitioned into bonsai soil. Another exception is azalea. They get straight Kanuma soil.

Once a tree gets potted into a bonsai pot, it really won’t put on much trunk girth. So, that’s when you work on refinement. But, even when trees are in “grow boxes” they generally get the Boon Mix and organic ferts.

 

[Vindeezy]

It’s getting good now!!!

 

[sorce]

@Bonsai Nut thanks for giving Grim a special name! What a great guy.

.....

watering BS

Too important to not note.

Yesterday, it was 90F here.

Wet Pots, when just the loose "peak" DE is white, and the rest still grey.

According to (most) everything taught, this soil doesn't get watered.

The trees were wilting.

We are foolish to think soil wet to a half inch down is providing enough moisture for the tree.

The space surrounding the root can be well dry before we have a physical ability to notice, besides wilting, but by then it's too late.

I fucking garauntee, with the much looser soil that is APL. Trees are underwatered regularly. This is 70% of the reason I believe people are working weak trees.

Mucho mas agua por favor!
Gracias.

Sorce

 

[Clicio]

Soggy soggy
Wet wet
Leaving you to fret fret.

3. Water Daily and stop Worrying about Bullshit!

Best advice from 2017

 

[Joe Dupre']

How about this observation..... Most every tree I've taken out of a bonsai pot for repotting has a high percentage of roots circling the bottom of the pot. So, where is the wettest area in a pot? Why, it's the bottom 1/2" . Hmmmmm. Very interesting.

 

[leatherback]

The space surrounding the root can be well dry before we have a physical ability to notice, besides wilting, but by then it's too late.

Unfortunately, I noticed that this year. Topsoil looked moist. Tree was wilting. Watering can later, the tree looked perrrky again.

 

[Clicio]

So, where is the wettest area in a pot? Why, it's the bottom 1/2" .

What if the whole height of the pot is ½"?

 

[Joe Dupre']

What if the whole height of the pot is ½"?

Then you really HAVE to learn how to water that individual tree. You know......actually having to acquire a skill. If a person can't figure out how to water a tree, bonsai might not be his cup of tea.

 

[Adair M]

Unfortunately, I noticed that this year. Topsoil looked moist. Tree was wilting. Watering can later, the tree looked perrrky again.

This often happens when a tree with and old solid rootball is “slip potted”, or just poorly potted into a larger pot that is filled with modern bonsai soil. The water will run right thru the new soil. But the roots are in the old, compacted, rootball. And the water doesn’t have time to soak into the compacted rootball. It takes the easiest path, which is diwn thru the fresh soil. The roots will continue to pull water from the compacted rootball which gets dryer and dryer. The rootball can get so dry, it actually repels water! It takes a good soaking to remedy this.

This is why “slip potting” is never recommended. The best method is a half bare root repot . That way, half the old roots will be in the new soil. Two years later, do the other half.