What defines a Good Bonsai from the Also Rans....

I read a quote once, wish I could remember who said it, that has always stuck with me is that Life's 3 mysteries are love, art and religion. Who we love, the art that appeals, and the religion or lack thereof that you follow are each subjective and individual. And bonsai is art.
In trying to put my thought into words on what separates the good from the exceptional, I need to put it into the context of retail. I am the buyer for a high-end luxury boutique so it is my job to be the curator for the items that we sell. Traditional(Good) appeals to the vast majority of people and selling those items is what keeps us in business but finding the exceptional items for the clients that I know can appreciate it has separated us from others in the same market. My clients for the exceptional certainly see the beauty in the good. Good is where they began their journey, but they have seen it before too many times now and consider it predictable and common. They want to see something that doesn't abandoned tradion but still surprises them in some way. They took the 100s, or 10000's of items they have seen, education of the subject, processed it all together over time along with their own experiences and the result is that their good taste level has elevated. They are seeing every detail of an item and comparing it with everything they have seen before. They "Get it". They will have different personal responses to any particular item but they will pretty much agree on whether that item is good or exceptional. Some people are born "getting it", some evolve to "getting it", and some people, no matter what, never will. For those people, they may or may not see tradional beauty in the exceptional but it doesn't fit within the boundaries of their expectations. But the more they see and learn will expand those boundaries and if it is meant to be, one day they too will "get it".

Some people just have bad taste though. Luckily for them, there is a lot of ugly to go around. Don't be that person. ;)

James


I am on the lookout for the exceptional. There are always little reasons why some material is just good, and will always be just good. I think people either arrogantly or foolishly believe their skill can overcome a fatal flaw that keeps a tree in the good category. Sometimes a skill can do that, but this is why people auction off some of their trees. Some people have an eye for the exceptional, some don't. The guys on the show American Pickers, are able to sort through piles of artifacts(crap)to find the exceptional.

In the end a tree has to inspire me, be something I can't stop looking at. This is subjective to be sure. I'm not much into looking at collections that seems to be little mushroom shapes all lined up on a bench. I love all things twisted and gnarled. Everyone doesn't have to like that, different things move people, stir up reactions in you. If the only thing that moves us is that the material was cheap or any easy dig, you might be settling for good.

Time will tell and our collections will reveal how well we've been able to do that. I'm in no place to determine how well I'm doing at finding the exceptional either, just trying to get better at it. I wish all of you well in that regard, unless you are bidding against me at an auction!!
 
I read a quote once, wish I could remember who said it, that has always stuck with me is that Life's 3 mysteries are love, art and religion. Who we love, the art that appeals, and the religion or lack thereof that you follow are each subjective and individual. And bonsai is art.
In trying to put my thought into words on what separates the good from the exceptional, I need to put it into the context of retail. I am the buyer for a high-end luxury boutique so it is my job to be the curator for the items that we sell. Traditional(Good) appeals to the vast majority of people and selling those items is what keeps us in business but finding the exceptional items for the clients that I know can appreciate it has separated us from others in the same market. My clients for the exceptional certainly see the beauty in the good. Good is where they began their journey, but they have seen it before too many times now and consider it predictable and common. They want to see something that doesn't abandoned tradion but still surprises them in some way. They took the 100s, or 10000's of items they have seen, education of the subject, processed it all together over time along with their own experiences and the result is that their good taste level has elevated. They are seeing every detail of an item and comparing it with everything they have seen before. They "Get it". They will have different personal responses to any particular item but they will pretty much agree on whether that item is good or exceptional. Some people are born "getting it", some evolve to "getting it", and some people, no matter what, never will. For those people, they may or may not see tradional beauty in the exceptional but it doesn't fit within the boundaries of their expectations. But the more they see and learn will expand those boundaries and if it is meant to be, one day they too will "get it".

Some people just have bad taste though. Luckily for them, there is a lot of ugly to go around. Don't be that person. ;)

James
Cheers! If I am understanding correctly.
 
I am on the lookout for the exceptional. There are always little reasons why some material is just good, and will always be just good. I think people either arrogantly or foolishly believe their skill can overcome a fatal flaw that keeps a tree in the good category. Sometimes a skill can do that, but this is why people auction off some of their trees. Some people have an eye for the exceptional, some don't. The guys on the show American Pickers, are able to sort through piles of artifacts(crap)to find the exceptional.

In the end a tree has to inspire me, be something I can't stop looking at. This is subjective to be sure. I'm not much into looking at collections that seems to be little mushroom shapes all lined up on a bench. I love all things twisted and gnarled. Everyone doesn't have to like that, different things move people, stir up reactions in you. If the only thing that moves us is that the material was cheap or any easy dig, you might be settling for good.

Time will tell and our collections will reveal how well we've been able to do that. I'm in no place to determine how well I'm doing at finding the exceptional either, just trying to get better at it. I wish all of you well in that regard, unless you are bidding against me at an auction!!

I enjoyed your post!
Especially the sense of being represented by your own collection.
 
Exceptional: Unusally Good, Better than Average, Superior...

FWIW,,,American Pickers make their selections based on What they know will Sell, not necessarily an exceptional piece...
 
Shimpaku Saikei 2017 002.JPG Garage Bonsai 003.JPG Bonsai FAll 2016 003.JPG Bonsai FAll 2016 011.JPG

I enjoy building Groupings or Penjing because they don't take years & years to Train & Mature into Good Bonsai and they provide an almost Immediate level of Gratification & Accomplishment...Here's a few examples of some of my work, remember it usually takes a 3D view to really appreciate, that's my excuse and I'm sticking with it...
 
Exceptional: Unusally Good, Better than Average, Superior...

FWIW,,,American Pickers make their selections based on What they know will Sell, not necessarily an exceptional piece...


You must not watch the show much. Mike is always walking past the coke buttons to the strange things that are truly one of a kind. It's why they buy 10-20 things when they could fill up their van with "stuff they know will sell."
 
[QUOTE="Bolero, post: 431797, member: View attachment 135075

I enjoy building Groupings or Penjing because they don't take years & years to Train & Mature into Good Bonsai and they provide an almost Immediate level of Gratification & Accomplishment...Here's a few examples of some of my work, remember it usually takes a 3D view to really appreciate, that's my excuse and I'm sticking with it...[/QUOTE]

YOU MUST NOT DO THINGS LIKE THAT!!!!!
:mad:
it usually takes a 3D view to really appreciate.junipers and rocks.jpg

However it makes me feel way less guilty liking my pile of rocks and sticks. :oops:
 
[QUOTE="Bolero, post: 431797, member: View attachment 135075

I enjoy building Groupings or Penjing because they don't take years & years to Train & Mature into Good Bonsai and they provide an almost Immediate level of Gratification & Accomplishment...Here's a few examples of some of my work, remember it usually takes a 3D view to really appreciate, that's my excuse and I'm sticking with it...

YOU MUST NOT DO THINGS LIKE THAT!!!!!
:mad:
it usually takes a 3D view to really appreciate.View attachment 135089
However it makes me feel way less guilty liking my pile of rocks and sticks. :oops:

[/QUOTE]


Mike your Bonsai Grouping is really really nice, looks like Shimpaku and nicely pruned foliage, one can see thru it ...
I really like the scale with the rocks and ground cover, reminds me of a Mountain scene...
What are the pot dimensions ???
 
A quick Google search of "natural bonsai" turned up these along with many others .

I needed a quick way to get to what trees move me and help me define "good bonsai" so that's what I searched for.

I think they look magnificent. I ask the viewer to decide what rules/attributes these trees follow and have....and ultimately how much of that actually matters. I can only guess that as the artists created these trees and pot combos they asked themselves "does this look like something I might see in a nice moment/expirience in nature"

I only offer that, to me, these are "great bonsai" and separate themselves as such. Thus serving as an example of what good bonsai is.
 

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I only offer that, to me, these are "great bonsai" and separate themselves as such. Thus serving as an example of what good bonsai is.
I was once asked, 'you know why you like it don't you?' when I had just said, 'Wow! I really like that.'

Both of your examples have something(s) in the back that conveys the idea of depth. But, beside that, you know whey you like these, don't you? This, I think, is the challenge; it certainly continues to be for me.
 
@Mike Corazzi @Bolero

Can I make a friendly gripe?

I think all of those composotions will look better with more negative space....

Even if it is on the sides with just a wider container.

I appreciate the "being allowed to imagine stuff myself", stuff being the rocks, people, fallen Trees, that is "traditional".

But I also appreciate seeing everything there....be it penjing or whatever....

But with more stuff, more negative space is needed.

For the record....I think the textured background of mikes pic makes it seem like there is less negative space than there actually is....but the pot is still to small.
Note, I didn't say remove anything.
The pot is just to small!

Sorce
 
It is a judgement call in the end. If you really like the tree and think it's absolutely the best bonsai on planet Earth then;-----as far as you are concerned it is actually that. It really does not matter what I think, what Kimura thinks, what anybody thinks it does not matter. There are people on earth that love the taste of composted whale blubber and can eat it with-ought puking up their grandparents guts back seven generations. To them, it is wonderful, to you and me it is deadly and disgusting. So that's the long and short of it. You can make all kinds of arguments, most of which I would probably agree with, but you probably will not change a made up mind.
 
A quick Google search of "natural bonsai" turned up these along with many others .

I needed a quick way to get to what trees move me and help me define "good bonsai" so that's what I searched for.

I think they look magnificent. I ask the viewer to decide what rules/attributes these trees follow and have....and ultimately how much of that actually matters. I can only guess that as the artists created these trees and pot combos they asked themselves "does this look like something I might see in a nice moment/expirience in nature"

I only offer that, to me, these are "great bonsai" and separate themselves as such. Thus serving as an example of what good bonsai is.
I half agree with this. The first group was Murata's Acer tenulifolium which he states as ''the best maple to evoke spring in a mountain glade'' (or something like that) So we know that's what was his inspiration and to me he totally succeeds. The zelkova group on the other hand I find irritating. The illusion of the large distance between the foreground and the background is outstanding and I love the small group of trees in the back. But the main tree just does not match them IMO. The back trees are supposed to represent distant trees of more or less the same size and shape and species of the main tree - not smaller younger trees - So the difference in their structure is too distracting. On top of that, the large tree does not look very natural where as the small ones do and this fact separates them further.
 
It is a judgement call in the end.

I agree with Vance. My original comment "it must move me" may have seemed trite or simplistic, but I truly mean it. I understand that my preference for bonsai might differ from someone else's. I can look at a bonsai and appreciate it for the 1000's of hours of labor that it took to develop... and yet not feel that excited by it. Or I can see a tiny tree in a pot, where I'm not sure the hand of bonsai stylist has ever touched it... and can be mystified.
 
I half agree with this. The first group was Murata's Acer tenulifolium which he states as ''the best maple to evoke spring in a mountain glade'' (or something like that) So we know that's what was his inspiration and to me he totally succeeds. The zelkova group on the other hand I find irritating. The illusion of the large distance between the foreground and the background is outstanding and I love the small group of trees in the back. But the main tree just does not match them IMO. The back trees are supposed to represent distant trees of more or less the same size and shape and species of the main tree - not smaller younger trees - So the difference in their structure is too distracting. On top of that, the large tree does not look very natural where as the small ones do and this fact separates them further.

You have a great eye and I appreciate what you see and how it makes you feel.

Regarding the Zelokova's....I agree that the large tree seems a little out of place...maybe the pointy-ness of the large tree could be giving it an unatural look?

Would simply taking a few inches off the top of the tree and rounding it off change your view of this arrangement?

Maybe the "flaw" you see is the artist trying to meet a rule? An attempt at creating a triangle using the canopies of the small trees and the primary tree to meet in an angular fashion.

Could a small change like this make a big impact?

Just trying to learn here. Thank you
 
Could a small change like this make a big impact?

Absolutely.

That's one of those "rules" that can't change.

Nature makes old trees round.

Wether we like it or not, or realize it or not, we will always see it that way.

Those smallest ones being rounder,
If they are, "really older and so much further away", they wouldn't have that slight shadow.

Makes me wonder if a lighting change could make a difference!

But you would only get that lighting at the Artisans Cup. So.....

Sorce
 
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